The Lakeland Revival - The Great Florida Healing Revival -- -- Revival In Lakeland '08

Two Years Later, What's Changed?

2010-07-31T16:25:00.000-04:00

Well, Ignited is doing well. Still with the only video church sign in the county.

Not too many false prophets and miracle ministries in the last year or so.

Looking at the upcoming events, it appears that they're attempting to be more mainstream, and less in the 'third heaven.'

The homeless still live out back of the 'church' without any outreach from the church, or any invitation. The one minister of the Gospel that tried to minster to the lost, in the woods adjacent to the church....well, he was arrested.

A Link For More Information

2010-07-31T16:06:00.000-04:00

Todd Bentley-false revival-prophets-unbiblical manifestations-third wave-weird angels-God TV-TBN-Charisma-Joyner hyped-revival-Links Compilation

One Way To Tell A False Ministry

2010-07-27T09:21:00.004-04:00

One way to tell a false ministry is to look at the youtube clips, and compare them to Scripture.

What does that say about Todd Bentley when all there is on youtube is videos about his false ministry?

I guess that means he must be doing something right, if everyone is against him?

Let's not forget: He left his wife for the babysitter of his children, and then he proceeded to divorce his wife, and along comes Rick Joyner to pronounce he's restored, lend his ministry's name and support, and voila, the same old Todd Bentley pops up again in ministry.

This time with a new, dreams of speaking with dead people, wife, to try to legitimatize his 'ministry' to those churches/people with itching ears.

Go figure.

Todd Bentley Is Back, Peddling His Ungodly Wares

2010-07-27T08:47:00.003-04:00

Wow, and we thought this would be over.

Looks like Todd Bentley wrested the name and website back from the Fresh Fire ministry. You know, he wouldn't want to miss some possible faith monies.

Looks like Rick Joyner says he's restored. Nothing like a false prophet, yes that's my opinion, restoring one who left his wife for the bars and his child's babysitter, right?

So why again is he delving into the angel of finance thingy, if he is about the Lord's work?

HMMMM.

There is nothing new under the sun.

I sometimes can’t believe the stupidity that passes itself off as Christianity. In the video below from the Kingdom Business Association, Todd Bentley talks more about the angel of finance and the angel called “International Banker.” I find it hard to believe he can say these things with a straight face.

So much time and energy is spent chasing riches. In this video, Todd Bentley speaks of God’s glory and material riches in the same breath. Sad. The Scriptures tell us that God was glorified through His Son. Those are the true riches. For those who lust for the treasure that corrupts, you have the angel called “International Banker” who spreads around filthy lucre. For those who want God’s TRUE glory, God sent them His Son, Jesus Christ.

The Lakeland Scandal - From Charisma Magazine

2008-08-14T05:20:00.003-04:00

You should see what Charisma, it's of God, we had better be careful, now it's not, has to say about Lakeland.

Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion

Todd Bentley’s announcement that his marriage is ending has thrown our movement into a tailspin—and questions need to be answered.

It was not supposed to end like this.

Evangelist Todd Bentley had heralded the Lakeland revival as the greatest Pentecostal outpouring since Azusa Street. From his stage in a gigantic tent in Florida, Bentley preached to thousands, bringing many of them to the stage for prayer. Many claimed to be healed of deafness, blindness, heart problems, depression and dozens of other conditions in the Lakeland services, which ran for more than 100 consecutive nights. Bentley announced confidently that dozens of people had been raised from the dead during the revival.

But this week, a few days after the Canadian preacher announced the end of his visits to Lakeland, he told his staff that his marriage is ending. Without blaming the pace of the revival for Bentley’s personal problems, his board released a public statement saying that he and his wife, Shonnah, are separating. The news shocked Bentley’s adoring fans and saddened those who have questioned his credibility since the Lakeland movement erupted in early April.

“Among those who jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon, discernment was discouraged. They were expected to swallow and follow. The message was clear: ‘This is God. Don’t question.’ ”

I’m sad. I’m disappointed. And I’m angry. Here are few of my many, many questions about this fiasco:

Why did so many people flock to Lakeland from around the world to rally behind an evangelist who had serious credibility issues from the beginning?

To put it bluntly, we’re just plain gullible.

From the first week of the Lakeland revival, many discerning Christians raised questions about Bentley’s beliefs and practices. They felt uneasy when he said he talked to an angel in his hotel room. They sensed something amiss when he wore a T-shirt with a skeleton on it. They wondered why a man of God would cover himself with tattoos. They were horrified when they heard him describe how he tackled a man and knocked his tooth out during prayer.

But among those who jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon, discernment was discouraged. They were expected to swallow and follow. The message was clear: “This is God. Don’t question.” So before we could all say, “Sheeka Boomba” (as Bentley often prayed from his pulpit), many people went home, prayed for people and shoved them to the floor with reckless abandon, Bentley-style.

I blame this lack of discernment, partly, on raw zeal for God. We’re spiritually hungry—which can be a good thing. But sometimes, hungry people will eat anything.

Many of us would rather watch a noisy demonstration of miracles, signs and wonders than have a quiet Bible study. Yet we are faced today with the sad reality that our untempered zeal is a sign of immaturity. Our adolescent craving for the wild and crazy makes us do stupid things. It’s way past time for us to grow up.

Why didn’t anyone in Lakeland denounce the favorable comments Bentley made about William Branham?

This one baffles me. Branham embraced horrible deception near the end of his ministry, before he died in 1965. He claimed that he was the reincarnation of Elijah—and his strange doctrines are still embraced by a cultlike following today. When Bentley announced to the world that the same angel that ushered in the 1950s healing revival had come to Lakeland, the entire audience should have run for the exits.

Why didn’t anyone correct this error from the pulpit? Godly leaders are supposed to protect the sheep from heresy, not spoon feed deception to them. Only God knows how far this poison traveled from Lakeland to take root elsewhere. May God forgive us for allowing His Word to be so flippantly contaminated.

A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment.” Ouch. Hopefully we’ll learn our lesson this time and apply the necessary caution when an imposter shows up.

Why did God TV tell people that “any criticism of Todd Bentley is demonic”?

This ridiculous statement was actually made on one of God TV’s pre-shows. In fact, the network’s hosts also warned listeners that if they listened to criticism of Bentley, they could lose their healings.

This is cultic manipulation at its worst. The Bible tells us that the Bereans were noble believers because they studied the Scriptures daily “to see whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11, NASB). Yet in the case of Lakeland, honest intellectual inquiry was viewed as a sign of weakness. People were expected to jump first and then open their eyes.

Just because we believe in the power of the Holy Spirit does not mean we check our brains at the church door. We are commanded to test the spirits. Jesus wants us to love Him with our hearts and our minds.

Because of the Lakeland scandal, there may be large numbers of people who feel they’ve been burned by Bentley. Some may give up on church and join the growing ranks of bitter, disenfranchised Christians. Others may suffer total spiritual shipwreck. This could have been avoided if leaders had been more vocal about their objections and urged people to evaluate spiritual experiences through the filter of God’s Word.

Why did a group of respected ministers lay hands on Bentley on June 23 and publicly ordain him? Did they know of his personal problems?

This controversial ceremony was organized by Peter Wagner, who felt that one of Bentley’s greatest needs was proper spiritual covering. He asked California pastors Che Ahn and Bill Johnson, along with Canadian pastor John Arnott, to lay hands on Bentley and bring him under their care.

Bentley certainly needs such covering. No one in ministry today should be out on their own, living in isolation without checks, balances and wise counsel. It was commendable that Wagner reached out to Bentley and that Bentley acknowledged his need for spiritual fathers by agreeing to submit to the process. The question remains, however, whether it was wise to commend Bentley during a televised commissioning service that at times seemed more like a king’s coronation.

In hindsight, we can all see that it would have been better to take Bentley into a back room and talk about his personal issues.

The Bible tells us that ordination of a minister is a sober responsibility. Paul wrote: “Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others” (1 Tim. 5:22). We might be tempted to rush the process, but the apostle warned against fast-tracking ordination—and he said that those who commission a minister who is not ready for the job will bear some of the blame for his failures.

I trust that Wagner, Ahn, Johnson and Arnott didn’t know of Bentley’s problems before they ordained him. I am sure they are saddened by the events of this week and are reaching out to Bentley and his wife to promote healing and restoration. But I believe that they, along with Bentley and the owners of God TV, owe the body of Christ a forthright, public apology for thrusting Bentley’s ministry into the spotlight prematurely. (Perhaps such an apology should be aired on God TV.)

Can anything good come out of this?

That depends on how people respond. If the men assigned to oversee Bentley offer loving but firm correction, and if Bentley responds humbly to the process by stepping out of ministry for a season of rehabilitation, we could witness a healthy case of church discipline play out the way it is supposed to. If all those who were so eager to promote Bentley now rush just as fast to repent for their errors in judgment, then the rest of us could breathe a huge sigh of relief—and the credibility of our movement could be restored.

I still believe that God desires to visit our nation in supernatural power. I know He wants to heal multitudes, and I will continue praying for a healing revival to sweep across the United States. But we must contend for the genuine, not an imitation. True revival will be accompanied by brokenness, humility, reverence and repentance—not the arrogance, showmanship and empty hype that often was on display in Lakeland.

We are weathering an unprecedented season of moral failure and spiritual compromise in our nation today. I urge everyone in the charismatic world to pray for Bentley; his wife, Shonnah; his three young children; Bentley’s ministry staff; and the men and women who serve as his counselors and advisers. Let’s pray that God will turn this embarrassing debacle into an opportunity for miraculous restoration.

J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma. To read Charisma’s news story on Todd Bentley’s recent announcement, click here.

Todd Leaves His Wife

2008-08-12T11:46:00.002-04:00

Apparently Todd Bentley filed for separation, the first step to his divorce from his wife, in Canada.

http://religion.theledger.com/default.asp?item=2248784

Todd Bentley's Revival Ending

2008-08-04T07:12:00.000-04:00

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080801/NEWS/657775483/1338/NEWS08&title=Todd_Bentley_Revival_Ending

Let the healing begin.

Anyone Ever Hear of Marjoe Gortner?

2008-07-19T06:26:00.002-04:00

I recently ran across the child evangelist, Marjoe Gortner.

There are several videos about Marjoe Gortner, including the Academy Award winning documentary he produced about his ministry in the early 70s.

There are lots of similarities of Marjoe, a confessed fake miracles and signs and wonders minister, and those of the present revival.

Just food for thought.

Short 3 min Clip - - Wow.

Longer, better clip. - - Sad.

Hugh Marjoe Ross Gortner, generally known as Marjoe Gortner (born January 14, 1944 in Long Beach, California), is a former evangelical minister who first gained a certain fame in the late 1940s and early to mid 1950s when he became the youngest ordained preacher at the age of four, and then outright notoriety in the 1970s when he starred in an Oscar-winning, behind-the-scenes documentary about the lucrative business of Pentecostal preaching. The name "Marjoe" is a combination of the names "Mary" and "Joseph".

When Marjoe was three, his father, a second generation evangelical minister, noticed his son's talent for mimicry and overall fearlessness of strangers and public settings. His parents claimed Marjoe had received a vision from God during a bath and began training him to deliver sermons, complete with dramatic gestures and emphatic lunges. By the time Marjoe was four, his parents arranged for him to perform a marriage ceremony for a film crew from Paramount studios, referring to him as "the youngest ordained minister in history." Like much in Marjoe's early life it is hard to say for sure who exactly ordained him, if his father ordained him, or if he was even ordained at all.

Until the time he was a teenager, Marjoe and his parents traveled the rural United States, holding revival meetings. As well as teaching him scriptural passages, Marjoe's parents also taught him several money-making tactics, involving the sale of supposedly "holy" articles at revivals which promised to heal the sick and dying. By the time Marjoe was sixteen, he later estimated, his family had amassed maybe three million dollars; shortly after his sixteenth birthday, Marjoe's father absconded with the money, and a disillusioned Marjoe left his mother for San Francisco, where he was taken in by and became the lover of an older woman. Marjoe spent the remainder of his teenage years as an itinerant hippie until his early twenties, when, hard pressed for money, he decided to put his old skills to work and re-emerged on the evangelical circuit with a charismatic stage-show modeled after those of contemporary rockers, most notably Mick Jagger. Marjoe made enough to take six months off every year, during which he returned to California, surviving on the previous six months' earnings.

In the late 1960s, Marjoe suffered a crisis of conscience -- in particular about the threats of damnation he felt compelled to weave into his sermons -- and resolved to make one final tour, this time on film. Under the pretense of making a documentary on the evangelical and non-denominational faiths, Marjoe assembled a documentary film crew to follow him around the Southern United States during 1971; unbeknownst to everyone else involved -- including, at one point, his father -- Marjoe gave "backstage" interviews to the filmmakers in between sermons and revivals, explaining intimate details of how he and other ministers operated. After sermons, the filmmakers were invited back to Marjoe's hotel room to tape him counting the money he collected during the day. The resulting film, Marjoe, won the 1972 Academy Award for best documentary.

After leaving the revival circuit, Gortner then attempted to break into both Hollywood and the recording industry. He cut an LP with Columbia Records, entitled "Bad, but not Evil" (Gortner's description of himself in the documentary), which met with poor sales and reviews. Gortner began his acting career with a featured role in The Marcus-Nelson Murders, the 1973 pilot for the Kojak tv-series. The following year saw him featured in the disaster film Earthquake as a psychotic National Guardsman, and in the television movie Pray for the Wildcats.

During the late 1970s, Marjoe attempted to self-finance another film, this time a pseudo-fictional drama about an evangelist con-man and based in part on his real-life experiences. The film started shooting in New Orleans, Louisiana, but went bankrupt less than 6-weeks into production. The film was never completed.

Gortner was married briefly to Candy Clark, from 1978-1979.

Gortner's most memorable film performance was as the psychopathic, hostage-taking drug dealer in Milton Katselas's 1979 screen adaptation of Mark Medoff's play When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder?, also starring Peter Firth, Lee Grant, and Hal Linden.

Gortner reappeared a few years later, starring in several B-movies such as Starcrash and hosting an early-1980s reality TV series called Speak Up America before ending his movie career in 1995. Today he sponsors charity golf tournaments and other events.

His most recent film appearance was in the 1995 feature Wild Bill, where he played, appropriately enough, a preacher.

Ezekiel 13:3 - "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: What sorrow awaits the false prophets who are following their own imaginations and have seen nothing at all."

It's All About Todd's Imagination - That's How He Does It

2008-07-15T12:46:00.006-04:00

It's interesting to read the older website writings of Todd Bentley.

Link to Article

Tasting Supernatural Honey

...Revelation supernaturally transforms your imagination and understanding.

...If you imagine with your "spirit eye" then you'll have your revelation....

...5. Sanctified Imagination: If we want to see in the spirit, we must use the powerful key of sanctified imagination....

...We have to begin to see with our “third eye”—the eye on the inside, in our imagination....

...I believe (This is Todd Bentley Speaking) that 90 percent or more of all visions and revelations happen in the eye of our hearts, in our imagination....

You can read the stuff for yourself, HERE.

Folks, Todd wants your imagination to become your "God" experience/revelation.

Look at the article.

Use common sense and what's in the Scripture. Re-read the whole thing in the light of Truth.

Listen to him say basically here it is and here's how God brings revelation---IMAGINATION.

And then he says, here's some Scripture that says something remotely similar, if you take a leap of faith, that to seem to agree, totally out of context of course, with what he's saying.

BTW, this is just one of the articles about how Todd does it. Just google it to see that this isn't just a one time article, that it's a core teaching on how to receive revelation, through imagination.

The Video - Todd Predicts The Second Coming of Christ

2008-07-15T07:49:00.007-04:00

What more has to be said or witnessed than this?

Please watch this video.

I recently ran across this video, and for some reason, didn't post it. I've watched it a dozen times or so, trying to wrap my mind around that axle and figure out how it could be up and up and not heretical.

I've had people say it's like the Book of Revelation, figurative not literal. And that you have to understand that and take it that way...

I had people say that Todd didn't say that, and that He was just saying Jesus would be there.

I also had people say He corrected what was in the prophecy.

Personally, I think the transcript from the video says it all:

Quote:
By Todd Bentley

Let me tell you...
I believe...
People can receive impartations.

Now let me tell you the prophetic word Wendy gave me.

To those watching. This is why I believe tomorrow night's meeting
if you live in

if you're watching on the internet and you're local

you need to be here Sunday night.

***>>>Watch for yourself<<<***

LISTEN TO THIS
(reading from a letter/email)

The 'lord' just spoke to me and said
This is what will happen tomorrow night.

The king and the king's anointing falls...

(pointing to the audience) tomorrow night.

The Eighth of June, the anointing of the 'king of glory' falls.

Jesus said, "I am coming in person."
[55sec] ***>>>Please, Watch for yourself<<<***

The king is coming in person.

I sense so strongly that there will be a personal, divine visitation of the Lamb of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, to the revival tomorrow night.

[1min 23 sec] ***>>>Please, Watch for yourself<<<***

He will come in the clouds in his chariot surrounded by a great angelic host

because the great honoring of the Lamb of God

The king of glory is coming to visit Lakeland

To visit the revival to visit the outpouring.

The devil trembles with that knowledge.

[1min 40 sec] ***>>>Please, Watch for yourself<<<***
For tomorrow, the king of glory sets foot upon the stage.

In

Divine

Personal

One to One

Visitation

Lead balloon hits.

Then Todd goes into his backpedaling and the you gotta understand the "prophetic" talk, and then changes the subject to how awesome worship has been the last few nights.

***>>>Please, Watch for yourself<<<***

It's all there in a easy to follow, 3 minute video.

What more has to be said or witnessed than this?

NOTE: I EDITED THIS POST TODAY 7/27/10 AS I NOTICED TODD HAD HIS VIDEO REMOVED AND UPDATED THE LINK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNGPjFYdgJw

A Forum Post

2008-07-14T07:15:00.000-04:00

LINK

Sagebrush, this Robert Brownell of that “Civil War” link you gave me says he interviewed 25 people were miraculously healed (at Lakeland via Todd Bentley), and these healings were “confirmed by multiple sources” He did not include doctors in that list, but medical records would be impossible to get without express permission of the person due to privacy laws. The Bentley camp themselves would have to work with people to get medical proof, and multiple sources say that Bentley is using delay tactics of making promises without producing any evidence. Multiple sources also say that there are no healings of people in wheelchairs or other obvious physical infirmities at the Bentley meetings.
One of the many things that disturbs me is how Bentley is enough of a false healing evangelist to not only fail to preach the Word (which is also being consistently reported), but to say that people who are supposedly resurrected are giving praise to God and Todd Bentley too. Here’s the video:
Raised From the Dead Shouting Praises to God AND Todd Bentley
There, Todd Bentley reads an unconfirmed ‘claim’ of a dead man coming back to life in a funeral home and claiming his voice pulled the dead man’s spirit out of heaven. The man is alleged to have woken up shouting praises to God AND Todd Bentley. He doesn't bat an eye while saying this type of blasphemy.
Eye witnesses are also saying Bentley is pronouncing people healed when they are not. At this website: Miracles That Never Happened in Lakeland , there is a video of Bentley reading out a false prophecy about a personal visitation of Jesus “in person” at Lakeland, coming “in a clouds in the clouds in His chariot, surrounded by a great angelic host,” no less. Jesus is supposed to step on stage. Then Bentley tries to backtrack on what he just said. He doesn't say, "Oh oops- that's obviously a false prophecy"... he tries to backtrack instead.
Below that video on the same webpage, there is the radio interviews: “Todd Friel and Justin Peters (Way of the Masters Radio) on Todd Bentley pt.1”, and “Todd Friel and Justin Peters (Way of the Masters Radio) on Todd Bentley pt.2”
This is an interview with Justin Peters who did his thesis on the Word of Faith movement. Justin walks on crutches or uses a wheelchair himself because of a relatively mild case of CP (Cerebral Palsey). He was at the Lakeland revival for a couple of days and he said he tried to go there with an open mind. However he found Bentley flippant about God and an “exceedingly arrogant person, constantly claiming experiences with angels and trips to heaven etc. He said there was no preaching of God’s Word and they described the anointed as “walking in the sauce” was “their word for the ‘anointing of God’”He said that he made it a point to get the names and phone #’s of 7 people who went up on stage, who said they were touched by God, were ‘slain’ in the Spirit and Todd Bentley proclaimed them healed, but when he called them and contacted them later, they all admitted they were no better. One man by the name of Larry Reed died of cancer 8 days after Bentley proclaimed him healed. In part 2, Justin said he was in a wheelchair with others in wheelchair (May 19th) and he described a heart-breaking scene after Todd Bentley encouraged people in wheelchairs to physically move around and do what they could to “exercise their faith”. One of the wheelchair victims fell out of their chair and laid there for about ½ hour until people finally got him up and put him back in their wheel chair.

Here is one of the written accounts from Justin Peter, with the Larry there obviously being the same person who is now deceased.
I’m sure lots of people have heard about this already, but this is the same Larry Reed that Andrew Strom has recently spoken about. There are accounts of this all over too. Here is one of them:

Quote:

I just read the saddest testimony on Strom’s website http://www.revivalschool.com/modules.php?name=Forums&...&start=390. A Pastor Larry Reed from Washington State had terminal bone cancer. He went to Lakeland last week, and Mr. Bentley “Bammed” him. He struggled out of his wheelchair and cheered with the crowd as Mr. Bentley proclaimed him healed. He died yesterday.
“…a dear friend of mine who passed away this morning at 5:20 AM. His name is Pastor Larry Reed, Pastor of Olympic View Assembly of God in Silverdale, Washington. Pastor Larry has been suffering for the past 18 months of terminal bone cancer. He was given only a year to live, but PRAISE THE LORD out lived the doctors findings. He (Pastor Larry) told me last year at breakfast one morning that he wanted more for Jesus and was going to do whatever it took to accomplish that. He invited speakers from all over the country from evangelists to prophetic speakers so that he and his congregation could catch the fire and maybe just maybe a revival would break out in his church.
He really took a turn for the worst this year, and lost most of his weight, he looked like a skeleton, was on oxygen and needed care all of the time. He couldn’t even preach anymore. Pastor Larry was a man who dearly loved Jesus, and was very strong in his faith and very strong in stature physically. So to see him so frail was shocking to say the least.
Last week on 5/18/08 he was in the sanctuary there in Lakeland trying to find the healing he soo much wanted, sitting in his wheel chair in front of Mr. Bentley, he was deemed as “healed” when Pastor Larry stood up and cheered in victory. During the course of last week when he returned, he got worse and so this morning he died.

So that’s by the mouths of more than one witness. And of course, there are also all the videos of Todd Bentley such as the videos above where Todd testifies against himself. Of course I would expect no apologies from any of these N.A.R. people or KC prophets for anything they do or say—I’ve never seen it-, but it is very distressing to see desperate people get hurt like this and I’m glad people are exposing these practices and these duplicities, for their sake.
-Teri

Video Interview/Commentary About Lakeland - "AN INSIDER's WARNING" - Lakeland Revival

2008-07-14T06:57:00.003-04:00

Here are some good, short videos, an interview, about revival, the prophetic movement, and Lakeland.

They are entitled, "AN INSIDER's WARNING" - Lakeland Revival

Pt. 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Y5R_raf6M Why I Left The Prophetic Movement

Pt. 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyW1UFzS2LY My Main Concern About Lakeland

Pt. 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaNiuRWHZrY The Holy Spirit and Angels -OR- Demons and Kundalini

Pt. 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyqA7vr-4p8 Is Impartation Found In The Bible?

Pt. 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fjRv1AcgiQ Manifestations Found In Past Revivals

Elvis Has Left The Building

2008-07-11T17:47:00.001-04:00

Fresh Fire Ministries announced yesterday that Todd Bentley would be taking some time off to refresh and to rest from the Florida Outpouring after nearly one hundred days of ministry. The Lakeland meetings will continue and Todd will remain the leader of this move of God.

Link

Reminders, Lest We Forget

2008-07-10T23:13:00.002-04:00

The True Workings of God, and Counterfeits of Satan.

LINK

"Knowledge and all discernment; so that ye may prove the things that
differ, that ye may be sincere and void of offence. . . ." Phil. 1: 9,10, m.

*True.*	*Counterfeit.*
1. The Baptism, or Fullness of the Spirit: An influx of the Spirit of God into the human spirit, which liberates the spirit from the soul (Heb. 4: 12), so as to become a pliable organ or channel for the outflow of the Spirit through the believer, manifested in witness to Christ and in aggressive prayer service against the powers of darkness. It is a true baptizing into the Body of Christ, and oneness with all the members of the Body. Its special mark and result is known in power to witness for Christ, and in conviction of sin in others, and their turning to God. The highest manifestation of the Fullness of the Spirit is co-existent with the use of the faculties and self-control. There is but one reception of the Holy Spirit: with many succeeding experiences, developments, or new crises, resultant on fresh acts of faith, or apprehension of truth; various believers having varied degrees of the same Infilling of the Spirit, according to individual conditions. The enduement of power for service is often a definite experience in many lives. Pages 50, 291, 297.	1. Counterfeit workings of evil spirits may accompany a true reception of the Fullness of the Holy Spirit, if the believer "lets go" his mind into "blankness," and yields his body up passively to supernatural power. As a "blank mind" and "passive body" is contrary to the condition for use required by the Holy Spirit, and is the primary condition necessary for evil spirits to work, the anomaly is found in the Holy Spirit responding to the law of faith, and filling the man's spirit, at the same time that evil supernatural powers respond to the law of passivity fulfilled in mind and body. They then can produce in the senses manifestations, which seem to be the outcome of the Holy Spirit's entry to the spirit. The results of the counterfeit manifestations are varied, and wide in their ramifications, according to individual conditions. The abstract result is great "manifestations" with little real fruit; "possession" by evil spirits of the mind and body in varied degrees; a spirit of division from others, instead of unity, etc., etc. Pages 54, 97, 106, 107, 108.
2. The Presence of God: Known in and by the human spirit, through the Holy Spirit. When He fills the atmosphere of a room the spirit of the man is conscious of it, not his senses. The faculties of those present are alert and clear, and they retain freedom of action. The spirit is made tender (Psa. 34: 18), and the will pliable to the will of God. All the actions of a person moved by the true and pure Presence of God are in accord with the highest ideal of harmony and grace. Pages 104, 107.	2. The counterfeit of the Presence of God is mainly felt upon the body, and by the physical senses, in conscious "fire," "thrills," etc. The counterfeit of the "Presence" in the atmosphere is felt by the senses of the body, as "breath," "wind," etc., whilst the mind is passive or inactive. The person affected by this counterfeit "presence" will be moved almost automatically to actions he would not perform of his own will, and with all his faculties in operation. He may not even remember what he has done when under the "power" of this "presence," just as a sleep-walker knows nothing of his actions when in that state. The inaction of the mind can often be seen by the vacant look in the eyes. Pages 109, 112, 124, 128, 130.
3. God in and with man in the spirit: John 14: 23. The Father in heaven is realized to be a real Father (Gal. 4: 6), the Son a real Saviour, the Holy Spirit a real Person; manifested as One in the spirit of the believer, by the Holy Spirit: with resulting effects as in Rom. 8: 9-11. Pages 103, 130.	3. Evil spirit's counterfeit, as the occasion serves them, each Person of the Trinity, and can thus obtain access, and become in and with a man in manifestations given to the senses, in which the real spirit-sense may have no part. Pages 52, 103, 104, 105, 108.
4. Christ manifested in the believer by His Spirit, so that He is known as a Living Person on the Throne in heaven, and the believer joined in spirit to Him there, with the result that Christ's life and nature is imparted to him, forming and building up in him a "new creation," (Gal. 1: 16; 4: 19. Col. 1: 27), the believer growing up into Him in all things.^{note 1} Pages 103, 107, 126, 127, 289.	4. Christ apparently manifested inwardly as a "Person," to whom the soul prays, or with whom he holds communion, yet there is no real evidence of the expression of the Divine nature, or true growth of the Christ life, with a deepening fellowship with the Christ in heaven. On the contrary the Christ in heaven seems far away. The counterfeit centres and ends in an "experience" which keeps the person introverted or self-centred (spiritually). Page 107. Cf. pp. 289, 290, 291.
5. Consciousness of God: Felt in the spirit, and not by the physical senses. Pages 107, 108.	5. "Consciousness" of "God" in bodily sensations, which feed the "flesh" and overpower the true spirit-sense. Pages 106, 130.
6. The Holiness of God: when realized by the believer produces worship and godly awe, with a hatred of sin. On the ground of the Blood of Calvary God draws near to men, seeking their love, but His presence does not terrorize. Page 289.	6. Evil spirits counterfeit this by giving a terror of God, which drives men away from Him, or forces them into actions of slavish fear, apart from the use of the mind, and volition, in glad voluntary obedience to Him. Page 143.
7. Surrender to God: Of spirit, soul and body, is a simple yielding or committal to Him of the whole man, to do His will and be at His service. God asks the full co-operation^{note 2} of the man in the intelligent use of all his faculties. Rom. 6: 13. Page 70.	7. Passive yielding of spirit, soul and body to supernatural power, to be moved automatically, in passive, blind obedience, apart from the use of volition or mind. Evil spirits desire "control" of a man, and his passive submission to them. Pages 68, 69.
8. Fellowship with the sufferings of Christ: The result of faithful witness for Him, and in such "suffering," the joy of the Spirit breaks forth in spirit. (Acts 5: 41). The fruit of true conformity to Christ's death in the "fellowship of His sufferings" is seen in life to others, and growth in tenderness of spirit, and Christ-likeness in character. 2 Cor. 4: 10-12. Page 89.	8. "Suffering" caused by evil spirits is characterized by a fiendish acuteness, and is fruitless in result--the victim being hardened instead of mellowed by it. The demons can cause anguished suffering in spirit, soul or body. "Possession" manifested in abnormal suffering, may be the fruit of (unconscious) acceptance of sufferings caused by evil spirits, often under the name of the "will of God." Pages 88, 89, 90.
9. Trusting God: A true faith given of God in the spirit, having its origin in Him, without effort reckoning upon Him to fulfil His written Word. Co-existent with the full use of every faculty in intelligent action. "Faith" is a fruit of the Spirit and cannot be forced. Gal. 5: 22. 2 Cor. 4: 13. Page 275.	9. "Trusting evil spirits" comes about through trusting blindly some supernatural words, or revelations, supposed to come from God, which produces a forced "faith," or faith beyond the believer's true measure, the result being actions which lead into paths of trial never planned by God. Pages 129, 135, 274, 275.
10. Reliance upon God: An attitude of the will, of trust and dependence upon God, taking Him at His word, and depending upon His character of faithfulness. Page 127.	10. Reliance upon evil spirits means a passive leaning upon supernatural help and experience, which draws the person away from faith in God Himself, and from active co-action with Him. Page 143.
11. Communion with God: Fellowship in the Spirit with Christ in the glory as one spirit with Him. The consciousness of this is in the spirit (John 4: 24) only, and not in "feelings" in the senses. See for conditions of true communion with God, 1 John 1: 5-7. Page 291.	11. "Communion" with evil spirits may take place by retiring within to enjoy sense communion, in "exquisite feelings" which absorbs and renders the soul incapable of the duties of life. The "flesh" is fed by this spurious spiritual "communion" as really as in grosser ways. Pages 124, 125, 155.
12. Waiting on God: The spirit in restful co-operation with the Holy spirit, waiting God's time to act, and a waiting for Him to fulfil His promises. The true waiting upon God can be co-existent with the keenest activity of mind and service. Page 62-63.	12. A "waiting for the Spirit to come," in hours of prayer, which brings those who "wait" into passivity, which at last reaches a point of "séance" conditions, followed by an influx of lying spirits in manifestations. Pages 62, 63.
13. Praying to God: Having access to the Holiest of all, on the ground of the Blood (Heb. 10: 19). Penetrating in spirit through the lower heavens to the Throne of Grace. Heb 4: 14-16. True "prayer" is not directed toward God as within the believer, but to a Father in heaven, in the Name of the Son, by the Holy Spirit. Page 126.	13. Praying to evil spirits comes about by praying to "God" in the atmosphere, or within, or possibly to "pictures" of God in the mind; instead of approaching the Throne of Grace according to Heb. 10: 19. Pages 95, 130.
14. Asking God: An act of the will in simple faith, making a transaction with God in heaven, on the ground of His written Word. "Answers to prayer" from God are usually so unsensational and so unobtrusive that the petitioner often does not recognize the answer. Cf. pages 249, 276, 279.	14. "Asking" evil spirits, by speaking to some supernatural presence in, or around the person. The "answers" are generally "dramatic," sensational, calculated to over-awe the person, and make him feel he is a wonderful recipient of favour from on high. By this means the demons gain control over him. Pages 118, 119, 142.
15. God speaking: Through His Word, by His Spirit, in the spirit and conscience of the man, illuminating the mind to understand the will of the Lord. Page 136.	15. Evil spirits speaking, wither puffing up, accusing, condemning or confusing the person, so that the is bewildered or distracted and cannot exercise his reason or judgment. The "speaking" of accusing spirits resembles the "thinking," or speaking to oneself, when the words are not uttered audibly. Pages 170, 171. Also "Listening" on pages 119, 125, 136, 142, 143.

16. The voice of God: Is heard and known in the spirit of man, wherein the Spirit of God dwells. God also speaks through the conscience, and through the written Word (see "Texts"), never confusing or dulling the faculties of the man, or perplexing him, so as to hinder clearness of judgment and reason. The true voice of God does not make a demand of unreasoning obedience to it, irrespective of the man's free volition. Pages 137, 138.	16. The counterfeit "voice" of God is usually loud and comes from outside the person. It can come from within, when the person is deeply possessed. It is frequently imperative and persistent, urging to sudden action. Confusing and clamorous, or subtle in suggestion; producing fear through its insistent demands, making the man a slave to supernatural power. May also be distinguished from the voice of God by its sometimes, trivial objective, and fruitless results when obeyed. Pages 137, 139, 141, 142.
17. Divine guidance: Through the spirit and mind; i.e., "drawing" in spirit, light in the mind: spirit and mind brought into one accord in harmony with the principles of the Word of God (Ephes. 5: 17; Phil. 1: 9-11 A.V. m.) Pages 134, 135, 136, 140, 219.	17. Satanic guidance by supernatural voices, visions, leadings, drawings, are all dependent upon the passivity of the mind and reason, and take place in the sense-realm as a counterfeit of the true in the spirit. Pages 128, 134, 135, 136, 221, 222.
18. Divine "Leadings": Are in the spirit; demand co-operation of the man in every faculty of mind, and spiritual intelligence in correctly rending the monitions of the Spirit. The will is always left free to choose and act. The true "leading of the Spirit" is never out of accord with principles of God's Word. Pages 140, 141.	18. Satanic "leadings" and impulses, demand passive surrender of mind and body. They are compulsory in effect, and all "compelling" and "compulsion" from the supernatural realm indicates the work of deceiving spirits. Pages 140, 141, 157.
19. Divine "Visions": When given, come (1) without seeking for them, (2) with definite purpose, (3) are never abortive, and (4) are co-existent with active use of the mind and faculties. Page 150.	19. Satanic visions, (1) demand a passive state, (2) are broken by mental action, (3) are frequently contrary to truth, and (4) fruitless in result. Destroy all faith reliance on God. Pages 149, 150.
20. Obedience to God: An act of deliberate will, choosing to do the will of God, when made known to the believer. A full examination of the source of the command preceding intelligent decision to obey, is co-existent with true obedience. Pages 50, 51, 54.	20. Counterfeit of "obedience" is a passive, automatic, blind yielding to supernatural power or voices, apart from intelligent apprehension of results or consequences. The person fears to question or examine the source of the command. Pages 50, 141.
21. God giving power: By the Holy Spirit in the man's spirit, strengthening him in spirit, so as to energize his mind and every faculty of his being to their fullest use, and enabling him to endure and accomplish what he would not bear or do apart from God. (Ephes. 3: 16) Pages 70, 138, 288.	21. Evil spirits give power in a supernatural energy--generally spasmodic and unreliable--dependent upon the man being passive in spirit, soul and body. This "power," when it ceases, leaves the man dull and exhausted, the effect generally being attributed to natural causes. Cf. pages 112, 118, 119.
22. God giving influence: Means that the believer draws others to God, not to himself. True Divine "influence" does not "control" others automatically, but constrains them to turn to God. Page 289.	22. Evil spirits giving "influence," means a control or power over other which causes them to act apart from their volition, or reason. This "power" may be exercised unknowingly by persons the demons can use in this way. Page 145.
23. God giving "impressions": Means a gentle movement in the spirit, which leaves the person free to act of his own volition, and does not compel him to action. "impressions from God" are within in the shrine of the spirit; and not from a "power" outside, e.g., in "touches" on the body, or an exterior compelling force. See page 219 for action of the spirit.	23. Evil spirits' "impressions" are from outside, upon the person, and require certain conditions for the "impressions" to be given--i.e., a sitting still and waiting, etc. These conditions can also be fulfilled unconsciously by cultivating passivity of the whole being. See obsession, ppp. Cf. pages 128, 129.
24. Divine life from God: Is known, not by "consciousness," but results, enabling the believer to bear and suffer what he could not bear or suffer humanly. There is rarely any "feeling" of strength or life, because consciousness of Divine life would draw the man from the path of faith to rely upon his experience. Pages 91, 291.	24."Life" in thrills, etc., given by evil spirits, is known by its being in the senses, giving pleasant sensations, rather than true power. When it passes away, the person is dulled or weakened, and may go into spiritual darkness through numbness of the sensibilities, e.g., he says he is "like a stone." Page 130.
25. Divine love: Shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is co-existent with keen and faithful dealing with sin; with acute hatred to sin and Satan, and all that is contrary to righteousness. God's love does not dull, but energizes every faculty to fulfil the action for which it was intended in creation. It has no "craving" in it, nor does it weaken those to whom it flows out. Cf. page 291.	25. Counterfeit of the "love of God" makes the recipient cover over sin, compromise with it; dulls him to keen-edged righteousness; makes him incapable of true hatred to the things that God hates, for the faculty which "loves" is the faculty which hates. The counterfeit of love, whether human or Divine, given by evil spirits, grips the sensibilities with an overmastering and painful "craving" for its object. Pages 108, 128, 145.
26. Fire from God: Is a purifying through suffering (Matt. 3: 11,12), or a consuming zeal in spirit, which deepens into white heat intensity to do the will and work of God, which no trials or opposition can quench. Fire from God is spiritual, not literal, and therefore falls upon the spirit, not the body. Page 291.	26. "Fire" caused by evil spirits is generally a glow in the body, which the believer thinks is a manifestation of "God" in "possession" of the body, but afterwards results in darkness, dullness and weakness with no reasonable cause; or else it continues deceiving the believer into counterfeit experiences. Pages 82, 130.
27. Texts from God: These are given through the organ of the spirit to the mind, when the spirit is (1) calm, (2) unstrained, (3) at liberty, (4) open to the Spirit of God. They do not confuse, and when acted upon are found to be confirmed in Providence, and are always in accord with the keen use of the faculties. Intelligent knowledge of the broad principles of Scripture is needed for the true interpretation of "texts" which arise in the spirit, lest they be misused through human conceptions of Divine things, e.g., the mind may take literally what God means spiritually. Cf. page 139.	27. Texts from evil spirits "flash" into the mind: rush with force; come from without (audibly), or in the mental sphere. They elate or crush, condemn or puff up; confuse or turn out fruitless, leading those who obey them into vain actions, or into wreckage of circumstances. Evil spirits give a false "experience," and then "texts to confirm it," whereas true experience confirms the truth of the statements of the written Word. Evil spirits make use of all misconceptions of truth. Pages 18, 65, 66, 139, 149, 150.
28. Sin from the fallen nature: Is from within, carries the will with it, or else forces the will by its pressure. The man knows the movement to sin is sin, and yet yields to it. Rom. 6: 6,11,12 is God's way of dealing with the fallen nature, and its workings, as the believer stands on the ground of the Cross, and wields Christ's finished Calvary work as a weapon for victory. The Holy Spirit bears witness to the Cross in setting free from sin, when it is the outcome of the evil nature. Pages 229, 234, 247.	28. Sin caused by e.s., apart from temptation, is also within, but is forced into the spirit, mind or body, against the desire of the man, and should be recognized as distinctly not of, or from himself, e.g., blasphemous thoughts and unexplainable "feelings." If the "sin" infused by demons is dealt with as from the evil nature, although the person stands on Rom. 6: 6,11, and refuses it, no deliverance comes, but when it is recognized as the work of demons, and resisted on the ground of the Cross, freedom is quickly given. Pages 133, 218, 228-233.
29. Self-examination in the light of God: A discrimination of his own actions exercised by the spiritual man, which does not produce "despair," "disappointment," a "crushed feeling," etc., but leads to rapid decision of action, and a joyous faith in the co-operating work of the Spirit in deliverance from all that does not bear the verdict of the light of God. John 3: 21. Page 56.	29. Self-introspection, is made use of by evil spirits to throw the believer into self-accusation and despair. This dries the person inward and downward to crushed impotence and faithlessness. God never crushes His children. He convicts only to reveal the remedy. Evil spirits seek to turn souls into self-centred absorption whereas God moves in them to live and care for others. Page 159.
30. Conviction of sin: Comes from the Word of God, or by the direct action of the Holy Spirit, to the conscience, in times of quiet prayer or reading. It is never "vague" or confusing, and ceases directly the man decides to obey the Word, or go to God for cleansing in the Blood of Christ. True conviction is also a deepening experience, as the light of God shines into the conscience and life. Cf. pages 229 to 234.	30. Evil spirits' accusations, which are a counterfeit of conviction, are from without, in the ear (audibly), or to the mind , in a "nagging," persistent, confusing kind of "speaking," often without definite purpose or specific reason. No "confessing" or "step of obedience" affects these accusations, and they come again and again over the same things Many live under a perpetual cloud through the attacks of accusing spirits. They are under the shadow of being "always wrong." Cf. pages 229 to 234.
31. Confession of sin: To God and man, should be the deliberate act of the will in obedience to the Word of God, and conscience. It should be followed by sincere repentance and putting away of the confessed sin, and have the witness of the Spirit to the conscience that the sin has been put away through the efficacy of the Blood of Christ. Page 133.	31. Compulsory confessions, by the driving power of evil spirits upon the mind in accusation, or from remorse; or, to silence the accusing voices, the man is sometimes impelled to "confess" "sins" which have no actual existence. Page 133.
Notes Without exception the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is marked by (a) a Christ-like spirit of love, (b) soberness of spirit vision, (c) keenness of vision, (d) deep humility of heart and meekness of spirit, with lion-courage against sin and Satan, and (e) clearness of the mental faculties with a "sound mind." 2 Timothy 1: 7. "Wherefore be ye not foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is . . ."--Ephes. 5: 17, R.V.	Notes Speaking generally, proof of "sense-manifestations" being from deceiving spirits may be found in the spirit being wrong alongside of "manifestations," e.g., 1. Condemning spirit and judging spirit. 2. Spirit-vision dulled; cannot see marks of God at work in other ways. 3. Absence of true Spirit-power in (a) conviction of sin, (b) deliverance of souls, or (c) salvation of souls. 4. Or the spirit is "sweet" in a weak sense, with mind dulled, and unable to work with clearness.

Todd's Interview on Nightline

2008-07-10T06:31:00.004-04:00

Wow, they seem to have done a good job analyzing the meetings and Todd, according to Sola Dei Gloria

If I had never heard or read anything about this man or the event and this interview was my introduction to both, there is no way I would think this was of God. When asked for verification on all the healings and miracles he claims to have ‘performed’ (and believe me, he does take the credit) he offers the interview-er the “media packet” which is suppose to be proof–it held no proof at all folks. He said on camara this packet contained ‘verifiable testimonies’ and ‘medical documents’. They showed these ‘papers’ on camara, they were nothing more then papers with names, locations, contact info blacked out.

A couple of the people they followed who came for healing, a man and his critically ill child being one, was heart breaking to watch.These people are coming to see Todd…to have “Todd” heal them or their ill loved one. That was very clear in the interviews with the people. This is all about Todd. If I ever doubted that, this interview and Todd’s own words proved it.

Todd’s comment about needing “1,000 more Todd Bentley’s” made me sick.

For those of you who have written me nasty letters concerning the money being taken in at this event, telling me Todd gets nothing–this interview proves you wrong. He makes 100,000.00 a year…plus its revealed he now needs more to be given: more money to pay his ‘ever growing staff’. I noticed he has public relation people around him now.

MORE HERE

Added 7/10~~The ABC Nightline page on the segment is here.

Award

2008-07-09T22:55:00.002-04:00

LINK

And the False Teacher of the Year Award Goes to…

Todd Bentley! Yes folks, it’s awfully hard these days to narrow it down to just one heretic when there are so many to choose from in American churchianity. What, with the plethora of apostates in the Word of Faith, seeker-sensitive, emergent church and easy believism proponents abounding, it is increasingly difficult to decide who “takes the cake” for the coveted ‘Informed Evangelist” false prophet award, but Bentley wins it going away.

Bentley brought his traveling freak show to the University of North Texas’ (Denton) Coliseum on Thursday night for “one night only” (praise God for small mercies). A team from The Lost Cause Ministries went out primarily to share the Gospel with those who are deluded by Bentley’s brand of false teaching. This was no easy task. Even though we were two hours early, the die-hard Word of Faith followers could not stop long enough for even a five minute interview because (they said with panicked expressions), “I need to get inside and get a seat. I might miss something!” Their demeanor was very similar to that of hardcore crack cocaine addicts who “joneses” without their quick fix. Fortunately admission was free and we got inside and passed out several hundred Gospel tracts and did some one-to-ones with a few Bentley fans.

Several of our team had to leave for another pre-scheduled venue, but a few of us stayed. Because of fortuitous circumstances, we ended up seated about four rows from the front, on the ground level. We were able to catch some of the service on video tape and audio recorded the entirety of Bentley’s “sermon”. What follows is a review of his message with some observations of things we personally witnessed at this event.

An Overview

Bentley’s message ran a total of 75 minutes. A friend asked me before he spoke, “What do you think he will preach about?” I said, “I think Todd will preach about Todd.” Apparently I was moving in the prophetic because that is exactly what he did. Imagine, and I had never even been to Lakeland before! Apparently the anointing is even more transferable than Bentley thinks!

After an hour and a half of being pummeled by worship leaders whose style resembled something like a cross between a squirrel on methamphetamines and whirling dervishes (intended, no doubt, to “let the anointing come” or simply to induce mass hysteria or brain washing), the local heretics (aka “gatekeepers”) welcomed Bentley to Denton\DFW. Chief heretic presiding was Chuck Pierce, of the Glory of Zion Outreach Center in Denton. GOZ is a self-styled “apostolic” Word of Faith ministry who is huge on receiving extra-Biblical revelation via dreams, prophecies, words of knowledge, etc. Pierce made an innocuous prophecy regarding the global outpouring that Bentley will usher in (now there’s a surprise).

Keith Miller of Stand Firm World Ministries, who has preached in Lakeland on several occasions and is trying to “bring it back” to Texas, was prophesied over by Bentley, at which point his true character was physically manifested when he and his wife lost their spines and turned into jelly on the stage, presumably from the power of the anointing. Texas, be warned. Miller is coming to a city near you with the Lakeland style hysteria. Just add Word of Faithers and stir. Instant revival.

The house keeping attended to, and Miller’s physical spine restored, Bentley began his diatribe (it cannot be called “preaching” or a “sermon” by any definition of the word). As already stated, Bentley pontificated about himself and the experiences at Lakeland. His speaking cadence varied from calm and quiet to hysterical. The crowd responded in kind, at the typical cues. In Bentley’s case, whenever he frantically shakes his head from side to side, this is a sign of the “anointing”. If he blows puffs of air out of his lips, apparently that means something big is REALLY going to happen. The crowd response? Speak in jibberish, laugh maniacally, sob, or scream in unison. This apparently helps grow the “fire” and “keep it going”, judging by the way the “worship” leader conducted herself.

Bentley reviewed the history of his own ministry going back to 1999, when he claims he was transported to Heaven and saw tens of thousands of “healing angels.” He came to understand that he is going to be the agent for the release of at least one hundred “healing revivals” at the same time, across the globe. This special anointing was to be released just prior to the return of Christ. He had the impression that he “has to score the touchdown” (his vision had to do with a Super Bowl-like scenario in a football stadium) and that it’s basically all up to him. Lo and behold, now is the time for the outpouring as evidenced by what is happening at Lakeland. In short, “It’s all about Todd.”

Bentley states that the unique thing about his healing revival is that it will be sustainable and transferable. In other words, anyone can get it. And those who get it are encouraged and expected to take the “fire” back to their own churches where they can have the same kind of revival (circus?) in their own church. Bentley is democratizing healing ministry. Apparently it will no longer be necessary to go back again and again to the specialist healers like Bentley, Benny Hinn and others. Now, if you can shake your head and yell “fire”, “bam” or “pow”, you “got it.” Imagine the confusion that will exist in so many churches.

At this point, Bentley made a big show of opening his Bible to John 5. He said something to the effect, “I better have you open your Bibles. I wouldn’t want anyone to say that Bentley came to Texas and never had you open your Bibles” (followed by snide laughter by Bentley AND many in the crowd). We’ll come back to Bentley’s hack-job of exegesis a bit later. It was deeply concerning that a professed preacher of the Gospel would actually mock anyone who would expect him to open his Bible.

This attitude is not surprising considering the fact that in a crowd of 10,000 our team saw less than ten Bibles in the arena. There were probably more than that, but it would be generous to say that 10% of the attendees had a Bible with them. One of our team members asked someone in the parking lot why they didn’t have their Bible with them. She said that the last time she came to one of these Word of Faith events that her family had their Bibles stolen. Bentley brags that he does not preach against specific sins, but apparently it wouldn’t hurt his own people if he preached against thievery.

After his deeply flawed exegesis of John 5, Bentley reverted to his chest thumping. He claims to have the names and contact information of 50,000 people healed in Lakeland in 90 days. Of these 50,000, he claims to have received hundreds of verifiable medical reports and is in the process of compiling a book documenting the healings. He further claims that he has a medical doctor on his team and a staff of about 100 who follow-up on the professed miracles one to two weeks later. He claims that this book will be available in “about two weeks” (from July 3^rd). He is now on the clock. Watch for his book around July 17^th. We will give him the benefit of a doubt and give him until the end of the month, but we are not holding our breath.

Bentley claims that there have been thirty resurrections from the dead since April 3^rd because of his revival. He covers his own posterior by saying that if at least five of them are real then God is really doing something. He does the same thing with his “healings”, telling the gullible that sometimes it can take as much as a week or two before they “receive” their healing. He also says that people sometimes “lose their healing”. What? I don’t recall the Lord Jesus giving His followers disclaimers when He healed them. Folks, face it. This stuff is not real. It’s the fruit of lousy theology combined with the power of suggestion to a crowd that is desperate for healing and an experience.

After some more self aggrandizement regarding the coming “media revival” where he will be featured on Nightline and other news shows, he rehearsed the history of the Lakeland revival in particular. He claims that a “healing angel” visited him in his hotel room on April 3^rd telling him that the long awaited “healing revival has begun.” He spoke of some “unusual miracles” where scars and burn marks miraculously vanished. A man with a glass eyeball claims to see out of it. A double amputee claims that his legs have begun to grow back to the tune of one inch. Homosexuals have been “healed” of their homosexuality and fifty wheelchair bound people have been healed.

At this point Bentley stated that he does not preach against specific sin. He alluded to Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 and said, “Sin is sin and only the blood of Jesus can cleanse it.” These few sentences out of 75 minutes of preaching comprise the only content than can be remotely called a presentation of the Gospel. More on this later.

At this point, Bentley conducted a free will offering which was collected for Keith Miller’s ministry. He used it as an invitation to “plant revival seeds” and reap “one hundredfold”. His disclaimer of “you cannot purchase the anointing” seemed disingenuous considering the emphasis made upon personal blessing if one faithfully gave financially to the ministry. Just because Bentley gave that little disclaimer in no way frees him from the responsibility he bears when he led them to believe that their “harvest of miracles” was directly related to their giving. A charlatan is a charlatan even if he’s raising money for another charlatan.

Concerns:

What’s wrong with Bentley and his message should be obvious to anyone with just a modicum of discernment. Since one cannot use the words “discernment” and “Lakeland fan” in the same sentence, I’m going to step out on a limb and explain just a few important points.

1. His ridiculous interpretation of Scripture.

Since Bentley didn’t actually use much Scripture, this is an easy place to start. He went to John 5 and read some of the account regarding the pool of Bethesda. He committed some atrocious eisegesis (he read his interpretation into the text instead of interpreting what the text actually says). He emphasized the fact that the KJV says that an “angel” stirred up the pool and WHOEVER was cured of WHATEVER. He said that the miracles happened there because the angel stirred up the “healing anointing” (pool) and that the anointing was even stronger with Jesus. He said that the word “Bethesda” means “grace of God” and “outpouring”. During a personal conversation he claims he had with the Lord on the plane to DFW, the Lord told him that the swimming pools he saw on the approach to DFW airport were “pools of Bethesda” or “pools of healing” and that this was a promise from God that there would be an outpouring in Denton. Now there’s a surprise since that is what he PLANNED on doing while he was in town.

A couple of issues with what little interpretation he actually did: 1) the story about the “angel” does not appear in many manuscripts of John 5. 2) Even if you allow for the story, most Biblical scholars understand that this story has to do with a tradition that is not endorsed by Scripture, simply reported on. In other words, it would be better to say, “It was said that an angel stirred up the pool.” 3) “Bethesda” is an Aramaic word (not Greek or Hebrew) and any Aramaic place name is very difficult to interpret with exact certainty, even if you specialize in the Aramaic language. 4) The big idea of John 5:1-9 is not the fact that a place of healing was established by an angel, but that the Lord Jesus established His claims to Deity, title to Messiah and the fact that He is Lord of the Sabbath since He performed this miracle on the Sabbath (cf. the context of the rest of chapter 5).

This text is NOT proof that Todd Bentley is an anointed messenger of God. It is proof that Jesus Christ is God. Bentley abuses the text to subtly take the eyes of professing believers off of Christ and onto himself. Bentley is guilty of the “spirit of antichrist” (1 Jn. 4:1-3). He is taking Jesus out of the text and adding himself.

2. His Emphasis on Angelic Visions:

Bentley, in an unprecedented way, credits “healing angels” with the revivals he claims. He claims angelic visits, angelic revelations, etc. Apparently Galatians 1:8 is lost on him. Apparently he is not concerned by others who have been deceived by angelic visions, including the Mormon false prophet, Joseph Smith and the Muslim false prophet, Mohammed. Apparently he does not understand the truth of 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 that messengers of Satan disguise themselves as “angels of light.” The cold, hard fact that his claims do not match Scripture do not concern him since the Word of Faith movement allows for additional revelation besides the Bible.

3. His “Proof” of the Veracity of His Experiences:

Bentley stated flatly that the proof of the reality of his experiences is, “the global outpouring happening at Lakeland”. In other words, the miracles, number of followers, and global spread of this revival is the “proof.” By that line of reasoning, Islam and Mormonism are also blessed of God since they started with angelic messages and are both growing exponentially. Furthermore, miracles have NEVER been considered final proof of the truthfulness of a prophet’s claims. What has been the distinguishing factor has been the Scriptural content of the message and fulfilled prophecies. One single unfulfilled prophecy resulted in the execution of the false prophet in Old Testament days (Deut. 13:1-5).

The real proof of Bentley is completely lacking. He is a false teacher. Considering the fact that there are “lying wonders”, even if Bentley’s healings are real the content of his message reveal him as a fraud (2 Thess. 2:9).

During the “healings” in Denton, there was not one single immediately verifiable healing. All of the healings were for medical issues which could not be observed outwardly with any certainty. Those who came forward said that they “felt better” (in some cases) but it was totally impossible to determine that they had indeed been healed. If they felt a “tingling” or “a burning”, it was equated with the anointing. What would these same folks make of the “burning in the bosom” that the Mormons talk so much about? They would be easily sucked into that cult. Scripture must trump experience every time.

4. His Refusal to Preach the Gospel:

This is an important issue. Some who have used Way of the Master make a big deal about the fact that a partner ministry of Bentley’s called “Citytakers” trains the people who do street evangelism in Lakeland using some (not all) of Ray Comfort’s material. They miss the facts that: 1) Bentley does not “preach against specific sins”, which is contrary to the principle of using the Law in evangelism, 2) their questionnaires and materials do not teach the concept of false conversion, 3) their questionnaires use modern Gospel techniques to “get decisions”, and 4) their material places a heavier than normal emphasis on baptism, similar to Church of Christ false teachings.

Bentley did NOT preach the Gospel in Denton. He only briefly mentioned sin as something he does not preach specifically about. He mentioned Christ’s sacrifice in passing (one sentence) and did not mention repentance or Biblical faith. He did not even mention the substitutionary nature of Christ’s death and did not mention His resurrection in connection with the Gospel. This single issue disqualifies Bentley as a minister of the Gospel. What is the point of assembling 10,000 people to simply talk about your ministry for more than an hour? In spite of all of the lip service to God’s glory, this fact alone reveals that this Lakeland outpouring is strictly about Todd Bentley.

Conclusion:

There is much, much more that can be said about this dangerous heresy arising out of Lakeland. There is much more that we witnessed that was disturbing. What is truly sad is going to an event like this and seeing those in wheel chairs who leave the arena disappointed. They are lied to and told either that their faith is not strong enough or that their healing will come later.
What is even worse, is the fact that these folks are deluded by a man who is spreading a false Gospel. They are experiencing something at these events and think that they now know Christ. They have been inoculated by Satan himself against the true Gospel. They will not hear it because they think they already have it, when all they have is a cheap counterfeit. Eventually, these folks will burn out on the hype and will not be found in any church. Meanwhile, the preachers like Bentley and those who support him will continue to make money off of this lie. They will be faithful to their heresy as long as their bank accounts are full. On the day of judgment they will hear those horrible words from our Lord Himself, “Depart from Me, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity” (Matt. 7:23).

What Is The Purpose of Water Baptism?

2008-07-08T06:31:00.002-04:00

What is the purpose of water baptism?

Whatever you may believe, what does the Bible teach?

Is that what's going on here?

Reflections On Lakeland Florida Events

2008-07-07T06:24:00.003-04:00

Here is an article from Moreil Ministries, http://www.moriel.org , apparently from a pastor/church in the UK. LINK TO ARTICLE

Reflections On Lakeland Florida Events

Dear Friends, Fellow Ministers, saints and any others who will listen,

I have been inundated with both concerns, requests for information and for help concerning the happenings in Lakeland, Florida. I thought it might be helpful to send out some guidelines and information I have received from different sources. (on request-see later)

First, some things to think through.

(1) It isn't necessary to have to go there to find out what is happening as there are a multitude of excerpts on You Tube, which give just about every slant you would wish to have. For those who dispute that, I would say "why do you just watch the news on TV and not go to all the places where it comes from to make your own assessment?" We can discern things both good and bad by media visuals without actually being there. I have just watched yet another excerpt called "What possesses Todd Bentley?" (Defending contending.com 2008/5/27). If I needed any further convincing this stuff is not of God this would be it. Full of the usual peripatetic and bizarre behaviour accompanied with the horrible mocking laughter (characteristic of Torontoism), it is the total antithesis to the ministry of the Lord Jesus described in Isaiah 42 and which describes TRUE ANOINTING. To watch the helper of a so called minister of God staggering across a platform with a laptop in his hands and falling down with it, is more akin to clowns at the circus. Anybody who really thinks this is God deserves to be deceived! Even if ALL the You Tube segments were selective, I would still have the same concerns. A huge amount of footage now available shows behaviour so bizarre, that even children in our Church have said "Daddy, how can that possibly be of God?"

(2) Todd Bentley claims to converse with an angel called Emma, who was active with the Kansas City Prophets, and I note one of the people very close to him is Bob Jones whom I understand is a discredited Kansas City Prophet and who claimed to hear from this same angel. At least one site gives information on a pagan goddess called Emma! Does any of this sound Kosher or Biblical? (See Col 2 vs 18-19). Surely, this alone should make any sensible person ask serious questions about what is going on here?

(3) More than one person I have seen on the web and with whom I have spoken believe Todd Bentley has gone into deception and some of these claim to be either his friends or have met him personally.

(4) When revivals took place in Church history (e.g. at the beginning of the 20th Century), they spontaneously occurred in SEVERAL places in the world and were not dependent on ONE place or ONE person or the impartation of "IT" (whatever that is?) People went there to receive a SCRIPTURAL baptism in the Holy Spirit and all the events could be substantiated by Scripture. It seems that everything is dependent on this IMPARTATION. If this is not the Holy Spirit, then we need to be aware that we can receive another spirit, another Jesus and another gospel (2 Cor 11 v 4). Most people don't like to hear that what they are receiving might be this and not the real thing. Why did Paul give this warning if it couldn't happen?

(5) Could somebody tell me what "in the name of BAM" means? Or what does "blah, blah, blah" being said over somebody signify? If you take the trouble to actually examine the media, you cannot but be really alarmed by what you see.

(6) Would a spirit filled man promote tattoos or be filled with bits of metal when the Scripture expressly forbids marking or piercing the body. True prophets and ministers promote obedience to the Word of God. (See Deut 13 vs 1-5)

(7) There seems to be a preponderance of dreams and visions (sometimes several per night?) My recent studies on the Apostle Paul show that he had 7 major visions in his whole life and these often at crucial and dangerous periods in his life.

(8) There is a clear link with Toronto - You can see Todd Bentley on screen with the Arnotts and many You tube excerpts show the same bizarre, and ridiculous behaviour which accompanied the Toronto events. In one clip I am told people throw food around! We read or hear of Bentley and Jones "spirit surfing" (whatever that is), and some people who have been in the occult believe that astral projection is taking place.

(9) Healing and miracles, so called, are absolutely no guarantee that something is of the Holy Spirit. How many of these have been medically authenticated? Read Revelation 16 vs 13-14 if you don't believe me. Raphael Gasson a converted medium describes in his book "The challenging Counterfeit", how people are healed in spiritism. It is worth noting that in Matthew 24 one end time sign which occurs 3 times is that of deception and false prophets, which makes it all the more important that these events are matched against Scripture and ALL the Biblical tests by which we should test ministries, manifestations and "signs and wonders". Scripture makes it abundantly clear that we are to judge doctrines, spirits and ministries. Unfortunately many have long since left their Bibles behind in these matters!

(10) Having been personally involved in the charismatic renewal of the sixties with its Spirit anointed meetings, where people hardly dared to move because of the glory and presence of the Holy Spirit, these meetings are more akin to a circus, than anything described in real revivals. There is much hype and I cannot believe that Jesus and the disciples or the early Church ministered in these bizarre ways. Some of the physical activities of kicking people etc beggar belief! I have also experienced with others at close hand the ministry of those who have gone into falsehood and with the experience of hindsight I hear the same alarm bells ringing. Unfortunately many people have never had the misfortune of that experience and think that they are beyond being deceived or that this only happens in somebody else's back garden!

(11) As I both expected and predicted, all those who ran after Toronto seem to be running after these events. I find it sad that when our own country is under judgment, with warnings from people like David Pawson and the Bishop of Rochester, thousands of pounds are being wasted jetting off to USA. We should be on our knees crying out to God to visit our nation in true revival and using this money to evangelise and reach the lost or giving it to those who do.

(12) Somebody once said "the one thing we learn from history is that we never learn". All these things have happened before (Toronto probably caused one of the biggest divisions amongst charismatics/pentecostals in my lifetime, and perhaps ever). In my view, it divided those who really love Scripture and its plain teachings and warnings from those who only pay lip service to such. When Toronto first came, I spent hours examining, researching and most of all tried to search out the heart of God over all these matters (as I also did with the Kansas City prophets). Not only was I horrified by the way Scripture was twisted to suit the events by the leading players, but the Holy Spirit revealed many places in Scripture which clearly showed errors, abuses and deception taking place. I am glad to note that whilst the usual "big name" charismatic leaders are running after this stuff, there are many balanced and noted men of God who aren't.

(13) On a positive note, as an individual and as a Church, we never suffered by weighing and testing and rejecting Torontoism and many other things which have taken place. We have emphasised the balance of preaching the Word of God in the power of the Holy Spirit and we are increasingly finding many hungry people coming in some cases long distances. We regularly experience true gifts of the Holy Spirit, healing, deliverance and the manifest presence of God in our midst, and so we should not be bullied by those who may suggest we are missing something if we do not get involved in all this hype. ANYTHING God does, if it is genuine may take place anywhere direct from heaven and as already said is not dependent on one person or place or some special "impartation". Neither should we be bullied by those who use the phrase "Pharisees" to describe those who are not enthusiastic about these so called "revivals" or wish to weigh them against Scripture and discernings of spirits. The Holy Spirit is "sent down from heaven“ (1 Peter 1 v 12). Just like Torontoism all of this in Florida is dependent on somebody who has this so called anointing imparting it and then passing it on to others. It's all tracked back to one place! This is totally unbiblical.

(14) The use and practices of IMPARTATION in my view is used far beyond the remit of Scripture and there is a huge need to re-visit the doctrine of laying on of hands and the word anointing in both OLD and New Testament concepts. All of this is done far to liberally and freely in the modern Church without realising both the implications and dangers. We should exercise extreme caution about whom we allow to lay hands on us indiscriminately unless we know who they are, and are sure WHAT spirit is being communicated. We are personally acquainted with situations where people received false spirits from "Torontoism" and needed to be delivered from such. Beware of "in" buzz words such as impartation, soaking, resting in the spirit etc. Paul exhorts us "to compare spiritual with spiritual - NOT IN THE WORDS WHICH MAN'S WISDOM TEACHES, (ie the jargon of psychology, religion or modern charismatic 'pop' religion) but which the HOLY SPIRIT TEACHES". (1 Cor 2 v 13) The language of Scripture is quite adequate to describe what God is doing. "Soulish” (psychic) sensations are very different to reality which comes from heaven and God's glory. James tells us "the wisdom which descends NOT from above is earthly, sensual (soulish or psychic) devilish (demonic)”. These verses are written not to unbelievers but to Christians. The big problem today is that so many in the Church cannot tell the difference between the soulish and the spiritual. As confirmed by a lady in my Church who was deeply into the occult, much of the activity we are observing is more akin to the kundalini spirit found in yoga and hinduism. This understanding between soul and spirit can only come through allowing God's Word to DIVIDE soul and spirit (Heb 4 v 12) and the true and genuine work of the cross in our lives. (eg John 12 v 25 ). However, this is contrary to "quick fix" Christianity which is the hall mark of much that happens today. I recommend "War on the saints" by Jessie Penn Lewis (unabridged version). She was closely associated with Evan Roberts of Welsh revival fame and shows in this book the dangers of PASSIVITY and how believers can open up to seducing or deceiving spirits. It is dangerous just to open up ourselves to "power" and to stop using our minds and faculties. This is how eastern mysticism and new age thinking works. We should always remember that the fruit of the Spirit is SELF CONTROL (Gal 5 v 23) and no matter how "powerful" an experience is, if we cannot control it, it is doubtful it is of God. Also the Holy Spirit never interrupts Himself. God is not the author of confusion. Raucous laughter in the middle of a God given message will never be of God. Indeed, much of the laughter I am observing, I believe to be spirits of mockery masquerading under the guise of the Holy Spirit. I sat on Derek Prince's UK board for some years, and as one of the most travelled Bible teachers of recent years, and well used to manifestations of the Holy Spirit, Derek said how concerned he was about "Torontoism" of which this is a replica. He also felt the charismatic stream had been 'hijacked' by flaky ministry and teaching.

(15) There is not only a host of information on the web we can examine, but a growing number of good men have now offered assessments of "Florida". I can send these to you on request and one of the best is by Doug Harris of the well known Reachout Trust in Surrey. These people are specifically called to deal with sects and cults and have much experience and insight from which we can learn. Tony Pearce and Dave Hunt have also written well measured articles amongst others.

(16) Many things have come from America over the past 40 years and the problem is nobody bothers to check them out. Big name "leaders" are the biggest culprits! Check the doctrine, background, pedigree, track record of "ministers" and you might be surprised. "You are gods" and "Jesus died spiritually" are 2 doctrines peddled by American ministries who are very popular here. The fact that somebody is on the God channel is no guarantee that they are Biblically accurate or sound. "If the ROOT be holy, so are the branches" (Romans 11 v 16.) If there is something wrong at the source, then there will always be something wrong with the so called fruit. That's why WE HAVE TO CHECK OUT THE SOURCE!

(17) In SWORD magazine (formerly PROPHECY TODAY) last year November/December 2007, a Word from the Lord was printed. This was to the Church and the Nation of Britain and was given by the leader of one of the longest standing intercessory movements in this nation (a Spirit-filled man) Part of this stated "My people give heed to those who prophesy a lie and they delight in teachers of falsehood. They run to those who steal from them by their destructive heresies, for they cannot discern a path of righteousness. A wave of deception is about to break forth that will sweep away many. Therefore, take heed to yourselves and cling to the Word of my truth." It also contained clear revelation about the negative economic and financial situation which would come, and I can't help noticing that since then we have seen a huge "downturn" in our nation in these areas. Others I know have been waiting for a wave of deception to come. I see nothing else around that fits this.

We understand that Todd Bentley may have already been invited to Reading (?) and that certainly there are those from the town who have already visited Lakeland. Consequently with the backing of my Church which represents a growing segment of the body of Christ in the south area of Reading and surrounding villages, we will unfortunately not be able to promote or back anything connected with these happenings. We understand that our concerns and warnings are widely and equally shared and supported by other Churches and organisations in this nation.

We also find ourselves at variance with the statement issued by the Evangelical Alliance (Joel Edwards) in a number of areas. For example, to compare these strange occurrences with such revivals as Jonathan Edwards, Wesley, Whitfield and the Jeffreys is an odious comparison. As any student of revivals or Church history will well know, the reactions here were physical reactions, mainly by sinners to clear anointed Biblical preaching and presentation of the gospel and not to questionable things producing bizarre behaviour in Christians following some "impartation" by one man. However, in my view, such is the power of deception.

No doubt there will, as always, be those who will re-act to what I have said. I am willing to take that risk for the sake of many wounded 'charismatic' saints I have met over the years. I'd rather sound a trumpet call now and risk bigots firing shots at me than to pick up pieces later on and be guilty of standing before the Lord knowing that I should have said something and didn't. For those who feel I am speaking out of turn, having been involved in "charismatic renewal" for 42 years, I do feel I have some right and experience to comment on these events.

We do not intend to get involved in endless discussion or argument over these matters and they have been weighed carefully and prayerfully before this communication, but for the sake of the body of Christ in Reading, felt it would be helpful to flag up this message BEFORE things get too far. It would be good to think that those in Reading who truly weigh things by the Scriptures and seek to exercise discernings of spirits may actually do that before these bizarre events hit Reading with force.

May the Lord speak clearly to and have mercy upon us all.

John Angliss

Modern-day 'miracles' lack Biblical purpose

2008-07-07T06:18:00.002-04:00

It's sad when the secular press speaks clearer than most "Christian" ones.

I recently read this one and figured you would like to as well.

Link To Article

Modern-day 'miracles' lack Biblical purpose

By Dennis Cogdill • SPECIAL TO THE DEMOCRAT • June 28, 2008

It has been said an individual can grow a beard, dress in a robe and sandals, and walk through America claiming to be Moses and find a following.

I believe that is true of people who claim to have visions. If you watch any amount of Christian television you will eventually hear someone claiming to have a vision from God. However, the vision is totally unverifiable and the only authoritarian source for the vision is the seer.

Todd Bentley, the leader of the Lakeland, "Florida Healing Outpouring" revival, is the latest seer to entice crowds with wondrous accounts of 20 foot angels and his story of personally ". . .going to heaven via a pillar of fire through the church roof. . ..." He describes a hotel room literally burned down because an angel visited his room. Mr. Bentley has even had a female angel visit him with new revelation. Of course, nowhere in the Bible do we read of female angels.

Mr. Bentley is more in line with Gnostic beliefs than Christianity. Gnosticism was a direct counterpart to Christianity when the twelve Apostles were alive. The Gnostics took pride in visions they claimed to see and new revelations they received. They taught that special rituals could catapult a person's spiritual level. Gnosticism was very fond of naming the angels after their activity.

Thomas Bentley has named the angel who started his revival "Winds of Change," and has said one angel told him, "I am a healing angel. . .." Mr. Bentley claims all Christians should and can take trips to heaven. An ad on his Web site says, in part, "The School of the Supernatural Realms of Heaven" will get you ready to fly like an eagle into the supernatural realm!"

In her June 21 article, "Lakeland Revival Is the Real Deal," Krista Abbott testifies of the validity of Todd Bentley's revival. Listen to the reasons Ms. Abbott gave for the revival's validity. She said, "...my heart leaped" when she entered the structure and even though she was not cold. "I felt a chill on my arm." As sincere as Ms. Abbott might be about her "experiences," I suggest we as Christians look closer at the Bible when it comes to validating miracles and visions, rather than our feelings and others non-substantiated testimonies.

There is a sect in Christianity who thinks miracles of the New Testament are to be duplicated today. Mr. Bentley, his angel, "Winds of Change," and his followers are an example of such a sect. They neglect the uniqueness of Jesus and the purpose miracles had in the New Testament.

John the Baptist, while in prison, sent messengers to Jesus asking if he was the Messiah or whether they should look for another. Jesus told John's disciples to report to him the miracles they were seeing. (Mark 11: 4-5) The reason miracles are a part of the Biblical revelation is to validate Jesus' claims as the Messiah, not to be duplicated. Jesus' miracles have an authoritarian source, God's word

Mr. Bentley and others claim a pseudo-authority for their "miracles," via duplication, but they still lack a Biblical purpose. To propose we need to duplicate Jesus' miracles today is to negate the uniqueness and purpose of those miracles which testified to Jesus as the Lamb of God.

A Pastor Visits and Objectively Evaluates The Revival.

2008-07-03T22:36:00.001-04:00

St Petersburg Times Article: Todd Bentley's revival in Lakeland draws 400,000 and counting

2008-07-02T09:24:00.005-04:00

Another interesting article.

Get out your credit cards, he said. Write a check. Click on the blue button on the Web site. "You reap what you sow," he said. "Generosity and the anointing go hand in hand."
St Petersburg Times Article from June 30th

LINK

Funny, your generosity towards Todd will determine the level of "anointing" you will receive?

Interesting theory.

I'll have to look for the Biblical example of that one.

Acts 8:20
But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!

Todd Answers the Critics

2008-06-29T16:40:00.004-04:00

Todd tried to answer his critics.

To his defense comes one Dr. Gary S. Greig, supporter of the Kansas City Prophets, and a graduate of Fuller Theological Seminary.

If you go to Todd's website, and go to his happily named (and rarely done in the meetings) page, Lifting Jesus High!, you will see the "scholarly" article by Dr Greig.

Wowza, 55 pages and theological mumbo jumbo. Of course that makes it all right, and something so daunting and impossible to finish/understand as to make it too much for you and I, right?

But alas, to their dismay, along comes a theologian not trained in a liberal seminary, James Praisch, Faculty of Hebrew, Judaism and Judeo Christian Hermeneutics, Midland Bible College and Divinity School, University of Wales, UK

Here is the rebuttal.
A Review Of Gary S Greig’s Pseudo-Scholarly Apologetic For The Unbiblical Antics Of Todd Bentley And The Lakeland, Florida Sequel To The Failed Revivals Of Kansas City, Toronto, And Pensacola.

Enjoy.

Berit Kjos

2008-06-29T13:16:00.014-04:00

I've ran across Berit Kjos in her articles on NewsWithViews.com and found most to be very informative and accurate, and an awakening call to the Church and America.

You can find here archived articles on that website, here.

As she says, "Truth Will Triumph."

That is certainly the case with the supposed city-taking (not in Lakeland, apparently) nation taking(not in the US, apparently) anointing Todd has for the taking, encouraging all to "come get some."

The truth is radically different than that shared before the audience of thousands/millions nightly by Todd, his understudies, or Stephen Strader.

Please, come to Lakeland and stay a few days. Wander around town. It's a normal American town, so you don't have to be lead around by the revival masses Enjoy the swans and geese in the many lakes as you stroll. Talk to the locals.

You'll notice something glaringly missing from their day to day talk: Jesus and what's going on on the outskirts of town, on the other side of the airport each night.

Anyhow, Berit Kjos has a good website, Kjos Ministries, that has some great information about several things attacking/influencing the church, including the New Age, Purpose Driven, attacks/influences. Those are for further study/reading.

She has weighed in on the outpouring of the spirits here in Lakeland, as well.

Angels or Demons? Todd Bentley and "The Beautiful Side of Evil"....

Mesmerizing the masses

To alter her consciousness and connect with these entities, Johanna used meditation, visualization, concentration -- and the repetitive beat of a metronome. Bentley's tools are different but just as effective. Like tribal shamans (and like his own former world of "satanic music"), he uses loud rhythmic sounds (drums, etc.), then adds repetitious words and hypnotic music. Pastor Gary Osborne described it in his article,
Bentley's "Revival" in Lakeland, Florida:

"The phrase 'stir yourselves up' was used repeatedly.... A woman led in prayer for the service and ... told the people to 'roar like a lion!' ... People everywhere shouted at the top of their lungs.... This same lady was jerking and twitching.... There was also much talk of 'birthing' and 'signs and wonders.'... People were swaying and dancing.... There was a very sensual spirit... People seemed to be in a trance all around me. If the worship leader said, 'raise your hands' everyone did so immediately. If he said, 'drop to your knees' they did.... The music had the people mesmerized....

"At about 8:30 PM... the music leader says, 'I’m feeling drunk.' He then tells the people to say to God, 'Intoxicate me, Lord.... Now the people are getting truly wild and the leader says, 'Scream!!!' and the people let out a yell.... Finally the worship leader falls to the floor himself...."[5]

This manipulative process started up again the next evening. Finally, with the crowd thoroughly conditioned to "break out of the box" of Biblical order (1 Cor 14:40), Bentley took control. Wearing a t-shirt with the words, "Jesus Gave Me My Tattoos," he announced the presence of "great authority" in the building. "I speak creation," he declared. "I speak new hearts, new livers into existence tonight....'”[5]

Todd Bentley's "Revival": Music and Mass Hypnotism

Just a couple of articles for further research.

ATM Machines In the Meeting Tent

2008-06-29T12:45:00.003-04:00

ATM machines in the Lakeland outpouring of the spirits tent.

Why, when any documented giving or ministry table sales can be done using your
ATM/Visa/MC/Amex?

I think the key here is documented giving. Cash doesn't require the 501c3 to issue a tax statement of giving to the individual giver, resulting in less expense to the organization.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

I live in Lakeland, and there are ATMs within 5 minutes of the tent, already existing, not to mention the normal banks/groceries within 10 minutes drive from the edge of Polk County, 10 minutes from the far side of the airport, where the meetings are being held.

The Great Falling Away Today, By Milton Green

2008-06-28T18:13:00.009-04:00

I just realized, after reading Vine Man's post below, How To Know The Difference, that there is an online version of Milton Green's book entitled "The Great Falling Away Today."

It is located here, about a fourth of the way down the page.

Starting Places For Further Research

2008-06-28T14:12:00.001-04:00

There is lots of information out there about the revival, so you can research what's going on, compare that to the Word of God, and decide for yourself.

Of course, try the search engines and different queries like, "Todd Bentley," " Todd Bentley Cold Reading," "Lakeland Revival," "Bob Jones," "William Branham" etc and start going down those rabbit trails.

Please don't get engrossed with the opinions, even those sounding knowledgeable and convincing for or against what's going on in Lakeland.

Look for the verifiable facts (videos/books/interviews/articles) and compare what's said/done/written to the Word of God. Everything else is just hearsay, and should be treated that way, until you verify it yourself.

Here are some places for further research:

Spiritual Research Network (Lots of links for researching)
Battle 4 Truth
Church Warnings
Discerning the World
End Times Prophetic
Files From Toni
Living Journey
Pure Gospel Truth
Revival Army
Revival School
Slaughter of the Sheep
Slice of Laodicea
Theology Today
A Little Leaven

Tons of articles that you can research or use as a starting point for research about Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Florida Outpouring from End Times Prophetic.

Todd Bentley by Mike Oppenheimer, Let Us Reason Ministries, 5/20/08 - The Todd Bentley "revival" in Florida.

Part 1 - “Meet the new thing- same as the old thing” “Will We get fooled again?”

Part 2 - To be Forewarned is to be Forearmed

Part 3 - A Story of Earth and Heaven

Part 4 - When the Angel came - The Branham connection

Part 5 - The fire- Fresh Fire

Part 6 - The Fire as an ANOINTING- Experiences of a baptism of fire, the pillar of fire and what the bible has to say on this

Part 7 - Angels we have heard and seen- Are we to be visited by angels and have heavenly experiences?

Another Lie, Another Deception, & Another False Move Of God, Just One More False Revival by Jacob Prasch, Moriel Ministries, 5/30/08

Todd Bentley/Fresh Fire Ministries Research Page compiled by Bud Press, Christian Research Service, 6/08

Todd Bentley’s Diabolical Signs by Jackie Alnor, ApostasyAlert, 5/11/08

Press Release – Third Wave Exposed by Christian News Today, 5/17/08
Todd Bentley’s revival in Lakeland Florida [with the assistance of Karl Strader’s son Stephen Strader is all about money.]

Todd Bentley or Jesus Christ? by Bud Press, Christian Research Service, 5/20/2008
Todd Bentley claims to have seen Jesus Christ, but it was not the Jesus of the Bible.

Todd Bentley - The New Simon Magus by Pastor Bill Randles, Believers in Grace Ministries, 5/26/08

Todd Bentley's Angels 4/26/08
Todd Bentley and Contemplative Meditation 4/26/08
Todd Bentley Taught Contemplative Prayer and Silence 4/29/08
Bentley's Lakeland Revival Keeps Moving Spirits... 5/20/08
Todd Bentley or Jesus Christ? 5/20/08

Todd Bentley by Mike Oppenheimer, Let Us Reason Ministries, 5/20/08 - The Todd Bentley "revival" in Florida.
Todd Bentley: "Will We Get Fooled Again?" (Part 1) May 2008
To be Forewarned is to be Forearmed (Part 2) May 2008
A Story of Earth and Heaven (Part 3) May 2008
When the Angel came: The Branham connection (Part 4) May 2008
The fire-Fresh Fire (Part 5) May 2008
The Fire as an ANOINTING (Part 6) June 2008
Angels We have Heard and Seen (Part 7) June 2008

To the Sheepfold or the Luau? 5/21/08
Todd Bentley: The New Simon Magus 5/23/08
Tracking Bentley back to Benny 5/9/08
Todd Bentley Kicks 'Older Lady' with his 'Biker-Boot' 5/28/08
Todd Bentley's Highway to Heaven 6/8/08
Fools for Christ--or just fools? June 2008
Is the Anointing Tangible and Transferable? June 2008
Todd Bentley: Miraculous Healings? 6/18/08
Same old scam? 6/20/08
'Is this the healing hand of God?' 6/21/08

BTW, if your site isn't listed, or you've ran across one that has some good, balanced, information/opinion about the revival, and you would it listed in these links, please email me @ MOG_Hesed@hotmail.com

Revival Quotes

2008-06-28T12:13:00.003-04:00

Finally, someone takes the time to transcribe some of the YouTube videos of the services here in Lakeland.

Lakeland Quotes is the website/blog.

Make sure you check out the videos yourself, to see if the transcript does say the things that are posted on that site.

Then go back and re-read what was said at the revival, and compare that with Scripture.

You may be surprised.

Thanks LeeAnn of Lakeland Quotes!

The Christian Civil War

2008-06-27T21:12:00.007-04:00

I ran across an interesting website that included a page about those speaking against any supposed move of God, entitled: The Christian Civil War.

The site is very much supportive of the Latter Rain movement, Paul Cain, and this outpouring of the spirits headed by Todd Bentley.

They had a list of websites/people who are supposedly against any move of God.

Here is the list, for further research to see if these people are watchmen, or are part of the "betraying army" in the dream that the author of that website had.

ApologeticsIndex.org
IntoTruth.org
LetUsReason.org
PFO.org
Discernment.org
DesceptionInTheChurch.com
AspostacyNow.com
Rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/
WordPress.com (I guess some of the 3,441,582 blogs are bad)
DeceptionBytes.com
Pat Holliday

International Visitors

2008-06-23T06:54:00.000-04:00

Currently there have been visitors from over 50 countries checking out the outpouring of the spirits in my town.

A lot of people are hearing about this and checking out the information for themselves.

BTW, only 70% of the visits to this blog are from the US, currently.

How to know the difference

2008-06-17T20:25:00.001-04:00

Most important: always check out what someones teaches in & with the Word of God (in balance and context).

Here are some additional resources that are relevant to these modern times.
Brother Milton Green gives some solid biblical help in these two messages found here:
Fury of Fire series, Mark of God or Mark of the Beast 1 & 2, #11 & #12 on sermonindex.com

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12041

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12042

Hey, better yet, why not listen to the whole series for yourself? A real eye opener.

Also an excellent resource: THE GREAT FALLING AWAY TODAY book.

http://www.befruitfulandmultiply.org/The%20Great%20Falling%20Away%20Today.htm

Another Observer Of The Meetings In Lakeland

2008-06-15T20:27:00.000-04:00

This is from End Times Prophetic

....Dear friends, after having been to the Lakeland Outpouring in person, I am very concerned about what is going on. Are there people there who are really saved and love the Lord? I have no doubt this is the case. Could some of the healings be real? They could be but I did not personally observe any - and I looked for them. Is Todd Bentley a man of God or a false prophet? Well, all I can say is that I do not believe him to be an honest man, he is a masterful manipulator of people’s emotions, he is actively engaging in activities that are extra-biblical and flat out unbiblical, and he does not preach the Word. What I am about to say is, I freely admit, subjective and by no means in and of itself authoritative in any way, but my spirit was very troubled the entire time I was there - very troubled. I believe that the Lakeland Outpouring is just the latest manifestation of the counterfeit revivals

An Open Heaven

2008-06-12T11:33:00.000-04:00

Let Us Reason has a great article entitled, An Open Heaven- Todd Bentley's Highway to Heaven

Exposing Error: Is It Worthwhile?

2008-06-10T23:51:00.002-04:00

Dr. Harry Ironside (1876-1951), a godly Fundamentalist author and teacher for many years, served as pastor of Chicago's Moody Memorial Church from 1930-1948

Here is his article, "Exposing Error: Is It Worthwhile?", from Go To The Bible.com

It is a good read.

25 Questions About Prophets And Moves Of God

2008-06-09T07:49:00.005-04:00

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This list comes from Defending, Contending.

I changed a few terms, in italics, BTW, to make it a bit less offensive to some.

1). If a modern-day prophet says one thing and the Bible says another (opposing/opposite) which do you follow?

2). Why if God spoke “long ago” through prophets, but now in the last days speaks to us through His Son (Hebrews 1:1) do we still chase after men like Todd Bentley?

3). If the temple veil was ripped in two (Matthew 27:51) and God is not to be found in any one particular place on earth (Acts 7:48), but is now available to any true believer anywhere, why must we go to a certain church, event or venue in order to “come get some?”

4). God sent prophets to the Jews up until the 400 years of silence preceding Jesus Christ, (whom to this day the Jews still reject). Why don’t those who know the standard of prophets best (the Jewish people) continue to “raise up” and chase after prophets like the Charismatics do continually? Why do the Jews continue to patiently wait for their Messiah (which they missed 2,000 years ago) while the Charismatics keep chasing after the next big prophet? What do the Jews understand about a true prophet of God that Charismatics seem to keep missing?

5). Why if the Church is instructed in 1 Corinthians 14:40 to conduct itself “properly and in an orderly manner” do Charismatics refuse to accept this and instead we see the antics, shenanigans, and circus-like atmosphere in these self-proclaimed movements of God?

6). When Christians use the “my God is the same yesterday, today and forever” argument in the context that they commonly use it, why do they then no longer stone false prophets to death?

7). Why do Christians keep proclaiming the coming of a great revival in these last days when this is in direct opposition to the revealed Word of God which says that a great falling away will occur in the last days (2 Thessalonians 2:3)? Where does it say that the return of Christ is preceded by a great healing revival?

8). Pharisees and Sadducees tested Jesus asking Him to show them a sign (Matthew 16:1, Luke 11:16, John 2:18, John 6:30). Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?

9). Why do those seeking a sign in Mark 8:11-12 cause Jesus to “sigh deeply in His Spirit”?

10). Why are those seeking signs and wonders (Matthew 12:38-39, Matthew 16:4, Luke 11:29) referred to by Jesus as evil, wicked, and adulterous?

11). Was Jesus saying the need to see signs and wonders was a good thing in John 4:48?

12). Was Paul implying the need to see signs was a good thing in 1 Corinthians 1:22?

13). Why do Christians always use Peter’s sermon in Acts chapter 2 (quoting Joel) to justify the tongues and prophecies they perform while excluding the other events like the sun turning dark and the moon turning to blood (v. 20)?

14). If it is God’s will that we should be healthy and wealthy, why did Paul suffer so much (2 Corinthians 11:23-27, 12:7-10)?

15). Isn’t seeking to be healthy, wealthy, and comfortable in this life a direct contradiction to God’s way of testing the faith of a believer and producing endurance in the life of a believer (James 1:2-4)?

16). Jesus addressed the fact that we are not greater than He, and since He suffered, we (true Christians) should expect the same (John 15:20, Matthew 10:24-25). Why do Charismatics ignore this and cling to the false notion that any suffering is of the Devil?

17). Why do the only two prophets directly referred to in Scripture in the last days (Revelation 11) perform no healings? Instead they do exactly the opposite of what all the “prophets” of today do; the very things most Charismatics would say is from the Devil. Why is that?

18). Why does the Bible repeatedly identify the existence of and warn us about false prophets (Matthew 7:15, 24:11, 24:24, Mark 13:22, Luke 6:26, Acts 13:6, 2 Peter 2:1-3, 1 John 4:1, etc.)?

19). In the end many false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders to mislead many (Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22). Why do most Charismatics refuse to accept this, and if they do accept it, they never accept that this could be referring to their favorite prophet?

20). Is there any “sign and wonder” that you can point to that is false/counterfeit from Satan? Or do all “signs and wonders” come from God only?

21). Can Satan and his servants appear as “good” or do they always come to us as easily identifiable “bad” spirits (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)?

22). Is the great and visible sign performed in Revelation 13:13 a good thing from God or a counterfeit from Satan?

24). Can Satan and those in accord with his activity perform signs and wonders and exhibit power (Exodus 7:11-12, 2 Thessalonians 2:9)?

25). What is the more common theme of the Bible regarding the prophets with accompanying signs and wonders?

A). The presence of signs and wonders are proof of them being true prophets of God.

B). That false prophets will mislead many and they will use signs and wonders.

Todd, The Evangelist's Interview With Channel 8, NBC

2008-06-03T19:08:00.006-04:00

Todd's Interview with TBO.com.

Remember, Todd is first and foremost, supposedly, an evangelist.

With that in mind, watch the interview, 17 min, and see if you can determine his vocation.

I like his, quote sign, salvation, conversion, and awakening part, shortly after the 12 min mark where he finally mentions the name of Jesus in passing.

I'm glad the interviewer didn't ask some hard hitting questions like what must I do to be saved?

Why I Believe this Todd Bentley, Fresh Fire "outpouring of the spirits" is not of God

2008-05-30T06:50:00.008-04:00

When I first heard about the revival, via an email from a friend, about 4 days or so into the revival, I decided to check it out.

This was the video that made me definitely check out Todd Bentley.

I am a student of revival, and there were obvious things to me that seemed waaaay off in this video.

First, Todd tries to create an apostolic/revivalist/angelic succession. The angel, William Branham, etc. At this point, I had no clue who William Branham was, but I've heard revivals/outpourings speak about the revivalists of old before. You should look into William Branham for yourself, to see what Todd is claiming is on him now.

Then he tries the fire on a Kentucky lady. Unfortunately, not being a veteran of being in the "spirit" she didn't do the courtesy drop or manifestation. I'm sure that changed over time.

At 5 min or so, the fun begins. You know, if you don't understand, well then.....

"I told the Lord why can't I just move in healing and forget talking about all that other stuff?"
"Because, Todd, you have to get the people to believe in the angel."
"I said, God, why do I want people to believe in the angel? "
"Isn't it about getting people to believe in Jesus?"
"He said, the people already believe in Jesus, but the church doesn't believe in the supernatural."
This sounds like another Jesus to me, even when I watched it over and over again, trying to justify what I heard.

That drove me to check out his website, freshfire.ca. It's changed in the last few weeks, as you'll see from the "cleaning out the barn" link above.

There I found out the "revelation" that Todd has encounters with dead people.(I'm sorry, for you "prophetic" and "anointing" seekers, yes, it was supposedly a vision, not speaking to dead people. But in my experience, the conscious conversational interactions in a vision usually are with God, not something you see.)

There I found out that Paul AND Abraham wrote the Book of Hebrews.

There I learned that Todd has no problem with encounters, for he NEVER, EVER, EVER, relates in his teachings, videos, books, or audio that he has EVER TESTED THE SPIRITS.

And one has to ask, if Todd is not listening to and doing what the Bible says, "testing the spirits," what "spirit," according to all we know about the Bible, WHAT did Todd embrace, and continues to embrace?

As I watched videos of Todd at Toronto (pre-tattoos) you hear stuff like this:

Notice, as you look for yourself, check out Freshfire.ca, and his statement of faith there.

You gotta keep that "further revelation" open, yet although claiming they're substantiated by Scripture, as you read, learn, watch, and listen to the encounters, you'll see these "further revelations," equivalent to Scripture in their eyes, are far extra Biblical. (again, see cleaning out the barn)

I ran across some other websites, as listed to the right. On one, I came across this:(start at 3 min IMO, to get the context)
Anyway, around 3.55 in this video - you can fast forward to it - a girl comes forward. After some ministry from Bentley, Todd says: Could we pick her up, I’m not done messin’ with her yet? which is a very odd thing to say, even in jest, and then there is something even odder he says about a minute later - it is like really mocking tongues or mocking ministry - Blablahblahblahblah be drunk! Blah blah blah blah blah blah - he says - what on earth is that about?

You see, I regularly get questioned as to my salvation, whether I believe in the supernatural, what religion am I, when I'm in the chatroom for the revival, and I dare post something that questions the "god" of Todd.

I've been there, done that, bought the tshirt and have the video to prove it as far as the supernatural, and experiencing true Biblical repentance.

I do and can embrace the genuine. There is a difference, and you find that by knowing the real McCoy, as you study your Bible.

I've seen the genuine. I've prayed for, seen people healed, and been healed myself.

In fact, from the beginning of this "The Great Adventure" since I repented of my sins, and put my faith in Jesus Christ, I've seen God's Hand move mightily and have been a "God Chaser" myself, spending many weeks in revivals where God supposedly was blessing with an outpouring, staying "under the spout, where the glory comes out" as one "move" called it.

I've been to Charismatic, Pentecostal, and Fundamentalist churches, and can easily feel at home in any of the above, for they all are right, anointed, and following after God, if in balance with what Scripture Says/Teaches.

I've seen the devil in action on the missions field, and I've seen the overwhelming deception here at home, and see some of the things, compromise, that has got us here, to this.

Todd started as a cheap charlatan, but because he's "christian" we let all kinds of things slide.

I keep hearing people say things like look at what God is doing, keep your eyes on man, not God, and take in the meat, spit out the bones.

There is a basic problem with this. If you read a box's/bottle's ingredients label and it contains things poisonous/harmful to you, do you take in the good stuff, and hopefully aren't affected by the bad, before you spit it out?

As a friend of mine says, how many drops of poison does it take in your glass of water for you to realize you shouldn't drink it?

As you can see in this video, below, his "prophetic/word of knowledge" gift isn't.

There is lots of legitimate, researchable items of concern to anyone who is wondering about this "outpouring of the spirits" in Lakeland.

All it takes for you or I to find the Truth about Todd, Freshfire, the Kansas City Prophets(I'm not going to go into that one), Emma -O, 6 or 7 heavenly realms, Bob Jones, Paul Cain, Patricia King(I'm not going into those three in this post either), etc, is to do the research which is as easy as using a search engine on the internet.

See what the man teaches, does, says, and writes, and compare that to Scripture.

Some of this stuff is ridiculous. Some of it will make you cry for your brothers and sisters involved with this deception.

As you can see here, violence is how Todd's god heals some.

BTW, in the accounts of thousands of claimed healings in the past two months, why isn't there even one medically verified healing/miracle?

We(people who dare question anything about the revival and stand on the evidence) are demonized and told to not "touch 'god's' anointed" or that we're being "critical" or possibly that we are blaspheming the Holy Spirit, when we share the facts.

But personally, if I know my brothers and sisters are having a nice walk down a path, leading over a cliff, I will warn them.

Todd Bentley Florida Revival Links From End Times Prophetic

2008-05-29T06:53:00.000-04:00

Tons of articles that you can research or use as a starting point for research about Todd

Are the challenges just fluff, or is there any validity to the messages?

I guess we will have to look at what these people say, compare them to what was said on the videos, taught in the teachings on freshfire.ca, and see what's in Todd's books/materials to see if there is validity to these concerns/challenges.

A Few Links From Let Us Reason Ministries

2008-05-29T06:24:00.000-04:00

Todd Bentley “Meet the new thing- same as the old thing” “Will We get fooled again?”pt.1- Todd Bentley's pursuit of the supernatural

pt.2 To be Forewarned is to be Forearmed- How important is it to know the word to test supernatural experiences?

pt.3 A story of Earth and Heaven- Examining Bentleys experience of a pillar of light and his trip to heaven.

pt.4 When the Angel came- The Branham connection- Bentleys claim of the visiting angels revelation and power.

pt.5 The fire- Fresh Fire

Three Questions About The Todd Bentley Florida Outpouring Revival Meetings

2008-05-29T06:11:00.003-04:00

\o/An excerpt from the website, Storm Harvest. You can find the entire article/discussion HERE .\o/

...Questions

1. Why are we calling this a revival?
The largest churches in the UK (such as Kensington International) draw more people every week than are turning up to Lakeland. The largest church in Nigeria (Faith Temple) draws three times that number! These churches win as many people to Christ each week as are being won at Lakeland. We do not call them revival because such a term implies that communities are being affected, towns are being changed, nations are being shaken. For a start, there are no credible evaluations of how many have been saved in Lakeland, Florida. Not from any of the main sources. We are now six or seven weeks in! There are estimates of how many people show up, and how many are falling down - but not of salvations?

2. Why have all the recent "revivals" which cause tourism take place in America?
Toronto, Smithton, Pensacola, Lakeland... thousands travelling to see it. Next week in a Northern Indian city there will be a baptism of 10,000 new converts, gathered in from hundreds of COC churches. In two weeks time there will be the confirmation of 8,000 new converts in a Pentecostal assembly in Uganda. It is estimated that 1,000 Iraqis are being converted a week now from Islam. Why don't we fly to those places - whose statistics are far more impressive than Lakeland?(For more information on revival tourism to those places watch this space!)

3. What has our Christianity become about?
Since when is the gospel centrally about a focus on angels, third heaven revelations, impartations and transferable blessings? Since when did Jesus die to make us rich, or to cancel debt we have accrued through the self focused spending we engage in here in the West? What happened to the simplicity of the gospel - repent, believe and be baptized?

We do not think the meetings in Lakeland will do much to make churches around the world look and act more like Jesus. The need for holy love, perfect oneness, release of the saints to ministry and completion of the great commission is not enflamed by enamel teeth or even miraculous healings. These tasks will remain long after Lakeland has become a set of archives in the YouTube history. Before you spend thousands of dollars going there, take a trip to the empty buildings at Pensacola, edifaces with a high debt and few people. Or perhaps go to Toronto and see a city that has successfully resisted God's presence in her midst these last twelve years.

An Apology To The Body

2008-05-28T09:32:00.008-04:00

As I mentioned in this Email to the Churchwarnings website, I live in Lakeland, now about 25 min, across town, down Harden Rd, Right on Pipkin, and take another right to the Sun N Fun area where the revival is at.

Something totally not of God manifested itself in Polk County on the second April Fools Day this year, Apr 2nd.

First, I must say that we, as a community of believers have sinned and have not been the watchmen we should have been, as lots of this demonic oppression and infiltration of the church has been going on for several years, that I am aware of.

The overlooking of sin in the church by the pastors/leadership(some of them guilty themselves and still there), the condoning of extra-Biblical teachings(for example, outreaches making sure we don't mention Jesus as to not alienate the "seekers") and seeking after the supernatural(encounters, without any teachings about what's real and what is of the devil), all the while not discipling the sheep by teaching them the Word of God, so that they may be prepared, mature, and reaching the lost.

So in essence, this community of believers is guilty of allowing this thing to fester and now it seems the boil has popped and affected more of the Body of Christ.

For this I am personally repentant towards God, and my deceived brothers and sisters.

Why was I so stupid, and did not watch and pray, interceding for my community as well?

We don't learn by doing things right. We learn from mistakes.

I apologize to you, that you have to even hear about Lakeland, Todd Bentley, Stephen Strader, Ignited Church, or this supposed move of God.

Had we done our part as Christians here in Polk County, Lakeland, and at our church, we would not be having this discussion.

You have no idea how sorry I am, for what was unleashed upon the Body of Christ through our indifference and neglect.

The devil had his day. We will not let it happen again, and as we pray, and Glorify the One True God, and His Son Jesus, the devil's influence will wither away, and this thing will move on to another unsuspecting, ignorant/neglectful place.

So if I can ask of you, pray for our community, for the communities of those who have people coming here to get some of this spirit or spirits and take that, anointing as they are calling it, spirit/spirits home to affect their church and community.

If we do not prepare, warn, discern, pray, and act, when the real latter days deception comes, you and I may be part of the elect deceived, as well as millions of souls lost.

It's worth the cost. Pray, read and teach the Bible, make mature disciples, and engage in spiritual warfare.

There is precious little time to reach the lost, and to save some of our brothers and sisters, before Jesus' return.

Let's be about the Lord's work, not seeking signs and wonders, and letting our brothers/sisters get wrapped up in a false gospel, ending up in hell.

We do make a difference. And the nice thing about repentance is now we get to get up off of our faces and get to do His work.

That Sums This Outpouring in Lakeland Up Nicely.

2008-05-27T23:57:00.004-04:00

I ran across this post on a forum today.\o/

Todd Bentley equals

1 Timothy 4:1 and Matthew 24:24

\o/That kinda sums it all up nicely, doesn't it?\o/

Well, Is It or Isn't It?

2008-05-27T17:21:00.002-04:00

The Foursquare Church, Jack Hayford, President, Concerning “The Lakeland Revival”

So, is it real, in the Foursquare Church's opinion, or not? I guess we may never know.

2008-05-27T08:06:00.002-04:00

...David Wilkerson in speaking about revival:

My recommendation? Get your own revival! You will find it in Isaiah 58:10-11. You need no airline ticket, no travel. I have found the springs of water that never fail!

"And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day: and the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not."

Revival Report

2008-05-27T07:12:00.003-04:00

This was posted on Theology Today under the Title, Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 6. It's a comment by someone who has spent lots of time at the services. \o/

I have attended this revival for many weeks. In fact, I have been there since the second night of Todd’s meetings (4/2/08), long before this became “revival”. Initially, I was so excited to see God move in such a mighty way. I was encouraging my pastor, several other pastors that I know, many friends and family members to “come and see what God is doing.” There were few times when I was uncomfortable with what was happening in the meetings, but I figured that I was just being critical and reminded myself that God’s ways are not my ways. I continued to support this revival, even after I heard my own pastor voice his concerns. I was quite vocal about these misgivings others had. I continued to defend Todd, God, etc., etc.

However, as time as passed, I have become increasing concerned about several things. First of all, I have worked in the medical field for over 20 years (in radiology). I have noticed that there have only been a very few “documented” miracles in comparison to the numbers that have claimed miracles. I am aware of at least two claims of healing that I believe to have possibly been real. There was the child with the elbow fracture and her x-rays. However, I would like to know the dates between the first set of x-rays and the 2nd, as healing, especially with very young children can be quite quick…especially if it was very mild fracture. Also, I would love to see the type of fracture, position, and the view (AP, lateral, etc.) of the second set of films. (Sometimes a particular view will not show the fracture that is actually there.) There was also a young man who testified one night (before TV/internet) about being healed from Hepatitis C, with the lab work to confirm. Again, with false positive/negatives that can happen with labs. I’d love to see what his actual lab values were and see a retesting to confirm. Although I do believe that this individual could very well have been healed, but because of how I’ve seen other things handled in this revival, I would just like to see more documentation.

Much of the “miracles” that I have seen over the weeks have been based more on what people believe that have happened, more than medically documented miracles. Many times over I have seen people with metal rods in their spine be “healed”. Todd will ask, what couldn’t you do, and usually has them bend over. This act of bending over is declared as a miracle. It is not. Most folks with metal rods in their back or neck CAN bend over, as these rods (Harrington rods) very seldom go the entire length of the spine. In fact, I have metal plates/screws in my neck and can bend my head from side to side and front to back. I remember one night when a woman with bulging discs in her neck came up to declare her healing. Todd felt along her spine and said “I don’t feel any bulging discs in your neck”, and then announced she had been healed. A disc bulge is something that you will NOT detected by running your hand up and down the spine. It is not something that can be physically palpated. Only imaging with MRI or CT would show the presence of disc bulges and if they were compressing nerve roots or affecting the spinal cord/spinal canal. I saw where this declaration of healing caused the room the go wild. My feeling is that if this is truly a bonafied healing…PRAISE GOD! But let’s confirm these miracles. That is what the world really needs to see! But alas, very few healings are actually being confirmed.

Secondly, my concern is the focus that has been placed on Angels, visitations, manifestations, etc. Although Jesus is mentioned throughout the night, though an altar call is given… far more emphasis is being placed on these other things than is actually being given to the Jesus and him crucified (as Paul would say). The cross, the resurrection, holiness, repentance, dying to the flesh, etc., are merely glossed over and not really preached. What is being given more time, more emphasis are these other “experiences”.

The atmosphere here has changed from the very first meetings…at least it seems to me. And as I said earlier, I have been at revival since April 3rd…the 2nd night Todd was here in Lakeland. Something is wrong and I am concerned. Somehow the gospel that saves and keeps is not being preached as it should. Jesus…not even the Holy Spirit… is to be focus. In the Gospel of John, it says the when the comforter (Holy Spirit) would come, it would not speak of himself, but of Jesus. My concern is growing. I think we need to really pray and ask for discernment. I’m all for revival. I am all for miracles. But is there another Jesus, another gospel that is being preached here?

\o/ My answer, as a person living in Lakeland, is yes.\o/

The Violent Word of God

2008-05-26T21:34:00.002-04:00

Anybody Want A Piece Of Todd?

Quote From John McArthur

2008-05-26T08:00:00.002-04:00

Sound, biblical doctrine is a necessary aspect of true wisdom and authentic faith. The attitude that scorns doctrine while elevating feelings or blind trust cannot legitimately be called faith at all, even if it masquerades as Christianity. It is actually an irrational form of unbelief.

—John MacArthur

The THUNDERING Song

2008-05-26T08:00:00.001-04:00

The Thundering Song

Todd Testing The Spirits?

2008-05-26T07:34:00.004-04:00

I recently ran into someone who said they had read all of Todd Bentley's books, and watch all of the revival services.

We had a nice cordial discussion about the revival.

I asked a simple question.

Have you ever heard Todd, in relating his many, many encounters with angels/spirits, say he tested them?

Naturally he continued with talking about the revival/Todd and ignored my statement.

After pointing out that he did not answer my question, finally, he had to admit, and stated, I don't know.

Hmmmm, so, another question, if Todd Bentley did not test the spirits from the first "encounter" but felt it was God, what did Todd embrace years ago?

Hmmmm.

Now, here's my question directed at you. If you have a supernatural encounter with a spirit that seems to be an angel, what should you do?

What's Happening To People?

2008-05-26T06:59:00.006-04:00

{click for a better picture}You have all of these people, supposedly influenced by God, who have attended the revival services.

They act as if something is wrong with you, if you hear about the revival, do a little research on the "evangelist" and other speakers, and don't embrace the revival as if it were from God.

I keep on hearing "eat the meat but spit out the bones."

Well, when you read the product label, and the ingredients include things you know are poisonous to your soul, do you ingest the poison and hopefully spit it out?

Is the supposed good we are encouraged to partake of tainted by what we know is bad?

Do we buy that bad piece of meat, expecting to cut off the rotting parts when we get home?

Honestly, I'm sure there is lots of stuff in this revival that would be appealing to me, had I not checked out Todd Bentley for myself, did a little research on the internet to see what he teaches on his website, checked out a few of the Ustream.tv video clips from the meetings, and watched several meetings online myself in the first week.

But Scripture is clear: There will be false prophets who go out and will show great signs and wonders, and will even deceive the elect, if possible.

We're okay with someone saying, "look over in Missouri, God is there. Look, over in Texas, God is there. Look, over in wherever there is an outpouring of God, let's go." And we search the internet for cheap flights and hotels, to go and be with "God," take some of that "anointing" and bring it home.

But do we check out who is there, and what is going on, against the Bible, or do we just pack our bags?

The Bible is clear.

Are we going to ingest poison, or are we going to seek counsel, check our Bible to see if it is so, and research/pray before booking a flight?

Sadly, most don't know their Scriptures or have enough common sense to do some minuscule amount of research.

Discernment isn't needed when the ingredients list includes poison.

What's Up With Those Tattoos?

2008-05-24T15:04:00.004-04:00

Did you ever wonder about Todd's tattoos, that he got in the last two years?

Here's an article with the pics.

Some of the stuff is just plain obvious that either Todd was stupid in getting the art, or is into something any Christian shouldn't be involved with, let alone plastering on his/her self.

Nobody has explained why a minister of the Gospel went tattoo crazy.

Oh, right, it must be so he can relate to those with tattoos and body piercings, right?

Here's another article with pics.

Here is a forum discussion about the Japanese words and the different pics.

A Discussion About Todd And Jesus

2008-05-24T14:50:00.001-04:00

Here

Messages About the Revival From SermonAudio.com

2008-05-24T13:30:00.001-04:00

Links To Messages From Pastors About The Florida Outpouring

Run For Your Life - Sermon From The Sunday After 9/11

2008-05-23T21:46:00.003-04:00

This is a sermon message that was preached the following Sunday after 9/11 attack on the United States at Times Square Church.

Steve Hill and John Kilpatrick speak at FLORIDA REVIVAL

2008-05-23T21:41:00.002-04:00

John Kilpatrick's Official Statement about Lakeland

Steve Hill / John Kilpatrick praying for Todd Bentey

2008-05-23T21:38:00.002-04:00

John Kilpatrick's Official Statement about Lakeland

What prophecy is currently being fulfilled?

2008-05-23T19:10:00.001-04:00

Here's a video to watch.

It's called, What Prophecy Is Currently Being Fulfilled?

What do you think?

False Prophets Duping Christian Parents

2008-05-23T18:22:00.007-04:00

Youth Ministries Alert has an article and a video on their website, entitled
Targeting the Children: False Prophets Duping Christian Parents or just check out the website for yourself, Youth Ministries Alert

Warning, don't watch the video until you have read the article and transcript, and compare it to the Scriptures and to New Age teachings, and astral projection. You will notice it compares to the latter, not the former. Be warned.

But remember, these are the people speaking at and leading the revival.

Smells like rotten vanilla to me.

After praying up, watching the video, if you can handle it, and praying again, you'll know what I mean.

Remember, the guy taking these kids into this "experience," Bob Jones, is the same fella who had women stand "naked before the Lord" before him at the Vineyard Aneheim in order to receive a "personal" prophecy. He has no credibility in my eyes. Do you want him taking your kids anywhere?

You might want to research Patricia King, and her encounter with the sUn, and how important the "blue flame" is to her.

And when you read up on Todd Bentley's past, you will never let him be alone with your children, regardless of how much of "God" you feel Todd has, if you have any sense of responsibility as a parent.

There's lots to be careful about with Todd.

The deception over this "revival" is growing.

Notice that the damning evidence is now removed from his website, so the stupid sheep will continue to flock to Lakeland, and pour into Todd's coffers, affecting the economy locally, and devastating/"marinating" several good churches in town before it will be considered "over."

Yet the community is still unchanged, and oblivious to supposedly "God" showing up in town.

Why?

If only we had been watchmen several years ago, this would never have descended upon Polk County, Florida.

Lord forgive us for our complacency, and lack of intercession for our church, our community, our nation, and our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Cleaning Out The Barn

2008-05-22T17:26:00.006-04:00

Todd has been doing some serious housecleaning on his website.

First, Emma is gone.

Now the Abraham and Paul wrote Hebrews article is gone as well?

What's that stinking smell? Is it rotting vanilla?

And, for your temporary enjoyment, here it is, and here's where it was.

Temporary, because if you don't have a copy, this one may go bye bye as well.

Think of all the deceived ones you won't be able to go and say, look and see, when all the youtube and freshfire.ca non-Biblical and heretical videos/posts are gone!

BTW, this "teaching" is also located Here. But it's not on Todd's site for some reason.

Man, that vanilla is just rancid!

http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=218 Part 1

http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=219 Part 2, below

In Part One of this two-part teaching entitled: A Face to Face Encounter, Todd defines supernatural encounters and experiences based on specific biblical evidence. Then, as he shares his face to face encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul, your belief-grid concerning heavenly experiences is sure to be both broadened and challenged. In Part Two, as Todd releases meaty portions of what the apostle Paul taught him, (in the context that Jesus Christ is the door to every heavenly encounter) you’ll be inspired to press in for your own face to face encounter with the Lord.

A FACE TO FACE ENCOUNTER

by Revivalist Todd Bentley [ as edited by Kathy Thorne]
PART 1 of 2

To come face to face with the Lord Jesus Christ is to come face to face with the goodness and glory of God! Oh to be a friend of God like Abraham and Moses were; for out of their intimate friendship with the Lord they had a face to face encounter with Him (Gen. 17:1; Ex. 33:11).

Listen. Today, for a deeper understanding of the apostolic, we need to note that every apostle in the Bible had been with the Lord. Not only were they friends of God who had face to face encounters with Him, they also had supernatural encounters and prophetic experiences. In fact, what made Paul an apostle was that he was taken up into the third heaven where he saw the Lord (1 Cor. 9:1; 2 Cor. 12: 2–4). That’s where his apostleship came from because he wasn’t yet a disciple or an apostle when Jesus was physically on earth.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER

Now I want to ask an important question. Can Paul’s experience also be ours today? The answer is “yes” and I say this because Jesus Christ is the same today as He was yesterday when Paul was on earth, and He’s the same forever (Heb. 13:8).

Now consider this: Jesus’ healing virtue is still released through His trusted servants today and that means that He heals people today just like He did two thousand years ago. What a great promise when it comes to healing, but why not for the supernatural? If He’s the same today, then why can’t He visit me like He visited Abraham? If He’s the same today, why can’t He visit me like He visited Daniel? Why can’t He visit me like He visited John? Why can’t He visit me like He visited Isaiah? How about Ezekiel?

Yes, Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and that makes what’s available in “Bible days” available today. It’s not just about healing and laying hands on the sick and seeing miracles, as great as these are, but it’s also about supernatural encounters with God. Do you believe that? Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead and over five hundred people saw Him for forty days in His resurrected body (1 Cor. 15:6)?

Do you believe supernatural things can take place today? I’m asking this because we’re okay with angels showing up and speaking to Mary and Joseph, but we’re not okay with angels showing up and speaking to us. We’re okay with Paul being taken into heaven, or what he called the third heaven—caught up into a place called paradise. We’re okay with that. It’s good for Paul, or it’s good for Elijah. Yet both Paul and Elijah were men just like we are, and as you know, they’re both in heaven today. So are Abraham and Isaiah, for example. They aren’t on earth anymore for God to interact with. But God, by His very nature, wants to interact with somebody supernaturally. My question is: Why not you?

Why should anyone’s experience in Christianity today be any different from what people experienced in Bible days? Take Peter. He was in prison (See Acts 12:1–17). While an all night prayer meeting took place (on his behalf in someone’s house) an angel of the Lord came to Peter in his cell and his chains miraculously fell off his hands. Then he was led by the angel out of jail into the city. Peter made his way to the prayer meeting and when he arrived and knocked on the door they didn’t really believe that he was at the door! They said (paraphrased): “Ah, it’s not Peter, it’s his angel.”

My point is this. As God pours out His greater glory, we’re going to hear about supernatural encounters and prophetic experiences, and they’re going to be based on the way God moved supernaturally, in ancient times, for people in the Bible.

ENCOUNTERS AND PROPHETIC EXPERIENCES ARE INTENTIONAL

What’s the purpose for supernatural encounters and prophetic experiences? You might be thinking: We’ve got the Bible and that’s enough! For me, it’s about intimacy, but not just that. It’s: Why wait for your inheritance? When you get to heaven what do you think you’re going to see? What do you expect it to be like in heaven? After all, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, the kingdom of God is within you, so why wait?

I’m hungry now. I’ve got an inheritance, I’m a joint heir, I don’t have to wait for: One day I’m going to be in heaven. Thank God that’ll be fullness. I’ll be in eternity. What’s more, we don’t only need greater faith, we also need a greater expectation that God wants to impart something to us. We need an expectation that He is going to touch us; He is going to speak to us; He is going to visit us.

Look. Heaven is real; it’s tangible, and the glory of heaven is real. It changes everything it touches. Furthermore, God wants the reality of heaven to be made known to His friends. For Jesus told His disciples—after He established the fact they were His friends if they did what He commanded—“No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you” (John 15:15).

God is looking for true friends with whom He can reveal His glory. There is a purpose for this desire. For instance, as God has revealed different aspects of His glory to me this year I’ve gained a deeper friendship with God. This has helped me to keep pressing in for all the fullness of God that I can contain, not just for my satisfaction, but ultimately so that He can work through me and cause others to know Him and be saved.

Now I want to share about an amazing prophetic experience concerning God’s glory that I had in a meeting in Redding, California this year. Here we go!

JESUS CHRIST IS THE GATE, THE DOOR , AND THE LADDER

In that meeting, about an hour before I was due to speak, I was suddenly overcome by the Holy Spirit. Feeling somewhat weak, as if I was going to go into a trance (a biblical trance like the apostle Peter had—Acts 10:9, 10), I asked my team to take me to a nearby place called ‘The Green Room.’ Sitting down on the couch I could feel a strong overwhelming sense of the presence of God and I knew I was going to fall into a trance. I was going to have a supernatural encounter.

Then, in the chair, with my eyes open, I had an open vision. Jesus appeared right in front of me. It was as though He stepped right out of heaven, the Lord Jesus Himself, and stood before me as a Man. I saw that behind the Lord, almost like a projection, a vision of heaven shone from the back of the His body; a trail of heaven followed Him, it was projected behind him. It was as though a window was open and I could look right into heaven itself. But heaven had come from the Lord. In fact, heaven is the Lord.

Out of the Lord came beams of white and golden light. Such brightness! From out of the white, golden, light came other brilliant colors—blue, purple, green, red and pink were the main ones—like rainbows. Pink prophetically represents love and emotions. I saw what looked to be ten rainbows coming from the Lord, Himself. It reminded me of the description of the throne room in Ezekiel 1:28—“Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.” I even saw rivers of oil, rivers of honey, and I saw bridges.

Then the Lord did two things to me. He walked up to me and He put His hand inside my belly and He gave me a supernatural enablement to live through what was about to take place. He was establishing me so I wouldn’t die. I say that because when I saw heaven I wanted to pass the Lord and go right in. But the Lord said, “If you pass Me right now, you will die. Todd, you are not just having a vision, you are in heaven and this is real.” The Lord said, “I am the gate, I am the door, I am the ladder. There is no heaven without Me.” He said if you pass Me, you will die. Something sustained me. He put His hand on my shoulder and looked me in the eyes and said, “Peace I give you, not as the world gives,” and a great peace came over me like a vibration and my whole body trembled while I received the peace of God.

Then the vision faded. Yet I was so overcome by the glory of God I just laid on the floor in the Green Room and as I was lying there, unexpectedly I was caught up instantly into the spirit. I was no longer aware that I was in a conference setting. All of a sudden I was standing on a grassy hill and I saw still waters. I saw a river flowing between its banks. It was like Psalm 23, green pastures, and I was looking down. I thought the (flowing) river was going to be pure, living water but as I looked I saw that it was a river of oil and honey. Next the colors changed from pink and rainbows, white light and the color of gold, to orangey red. Everywhere I looked was the appearance of amber. Everywhere, it was like a sunrise or a sunset, red or ruby or orangey red.

I looked up to my left and there was a bridge, and my first thought was: What a secret place. Still waters, I am in Paradise, this is Psalm 23. Look at that beautiful bridge! I just want to sit up on the bridge. That’s what I was thinking. The butterflies were flying by and I felt the peace of God; I was overcome by the shalom. Wow. I thought: Look at that bridge. Now, when you think something in heaven, you are there, so although I don’t actually remember moving, the next thing I knew I was actually sitting on the bridge.

While in this heavenly experience sitting up on the bridge I saw someone walking toward me. I knew in my spirit it was Paul the apostle. He walked right onto the bridge and he sat down next to me. He had this blank scroll in his hand and he started writing with a pen (which was more like a feather with ink). When he started writing it looked like Hebrew and he would say, “Eat this.” He continued writing on the scroll, saying “Eat this” again and again. But when I realized I was eating, I noticed that I wasn’t eating by my mouth, I was eating by my belly. He was stuffing his writings inside my spirit right past by head, putting some kind of divine revelation right into my spirit.

Then Paul spoke to me about the message of the hour for the Church and much more. Yet, it would be best to hold his inspiring message and the other heavenly adventures in connection with Paul until Part Two next week.

In the meantime, for those of you who want to study this subject matter further I want to recommend several excellent resources [three audio CD sets]: Greater Glory 2 gathering (from which this teaching comes); Developing your Seer Gift; Encounters of the Kingdom Kind; and Open Heavens.

_________________________________________

http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=219&pid=954

In Part Two of: A Face to Face Encounter, Todd begins by emphasizing that friendship with God must precede any face to face encounter with Him. Then as he shares several highlights concerning what the apostle Paul taught him you’ll discover who authored the Book of Hebrews as well as what other heavenly realms Todd saw. So be blessed in your pursuit of God’s greater glory which ultimately is God, Himself!

A FACE TO FACE ENCOUNTER

by Revivalist Todd Bentley [ as edited by Kathy Thorne]
PART 2 of 2

Before we begin this week’s teaching I’m going to emphasize one vital element from last week’s lesson, namely—friendship with God—and then resume where we left off concerning my encounter with the apostle Paul. [As well, because Part One lays a foundation for my visit with Paul, if you haven’t read it please do so before you begin Part Two.]

FRIENDSHIP WITH GOD PRECLUDES ANY FACE TO FACE ENCOUNTER

God highly esteems your friendship with Him. Not superficial friendship, but real, deep friendship—the kind forged through His fiery testings as well as His blessings. Look, even if you don’t really understand the great shakings of God in your life but you are still determined to trust in His inherent goodness and great love for you, such devotion thrills His heart. With an attitude like that God can’t help but be moved to commune with you on a deeper level, a level which is directly connected to the depth of intimacy you have with Him.

Take Moses for example; ultimately his friendship with God was so rich that God didn’t communicate with him like He did with most prophets in a vision or a dream, but He spoke “with him face to face, even plainly, and not in dark sayings” and “as a man speaks to his friend” (Num. 12:8; Ex. 33:11). In fact, face to face encounters with God like the one Moses had, only come after true friendship with Him.

So keep that friendship principle in mind as we move on to examine more facets of the encounter I had with Paul in the Paradise of God (the third heaven). So here we go!

THE MESSAGE FOR THIS HOUR IS THE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS

Now, continuing from last week, after Paul “fed” me revelation he stressed that the beginning of First Corinthians Chapter Two contains the most important passage of scripture for the church in this hour because it’s the message of the cross. “And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified” (vv. 1, 2).

In fact, when you read First Corinthians Chapter Two, yes, Paul begins by preaching the cross, but he also speaks about the hidden mysteries and he ends with preaching about revelatory gifts and the deep things of God (vv. 7–16).

Consequently he spoke to me about a supernatural faith, a supernatural gospel, and a supernatural experience. Paul said (paraphrase): “I was never just (only) a preacher of the gospel and I was never just a man of the gospel and salvation. I was a prophet of visions and revelations. I was a man of prophetic encounters and prophetic experiences. I was a man of the open heavens. I was a man that believed in the revelatory gift of the Spirit of God searching the deep things of God and revealing it to me. This is what the church needs and this is what God is doing today. The focus is going to be on a demonstration of the Holy Ghost in power. God has revealed these things to us by His spirit. We have the mind of Christ—a spirit of revelation searching the deep things of God.”

To summarize, Paul was saying that, above all, God is releasing the message of the cross, the gospel, in power (preaching and salvation), but not without hidden mysteries and not without revelation.

MORE WITH PAUL

After that, Paul took me to his house. (I was still in paradise [the third heaven]. His house wasn’t a mansion. It was actually a small cabin. There was an open field and a forest there.) Inside his cabin I saw books wall to wall, and scrolls. I saw every book that’s in the Bible as well as Paul’s diaries/journals that covered things that had happened in his meetings, things God had spoken to him, and things he had written that aren’t in the Bible. Paul said, “Not everything’s in there, Todd. Not everything’s in the Bible.” Just so you know, Paul didn’t give me a new gospel and all my revelation is based on the Bible. I’m not talking about a new gospel!

Paul took down the book of Titus and he said, “You need to eat this.” He explained that Titus was his apostolic son in the faith, and he said, “This is for the sons and daughters that you are raising up. I want you to get an impartation of what it really means to be an apostle, what it really means to have sons and daughters, and what it really means to be a son.”

Next he took down another scroll; this time it was Hebrews and he told me to eat it. This book is one of the most prophetic books in the Bible, and in that connection he told me something that I want to share with you even though I’m probably “stepping out” on theology now.

First of all, I want you to understand that Paul always made it clear when he authored an epistle—“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ” or “Paul, a bond-servant of Christ.” Always! Yet, for the Book of Hebrews, although most Bible scholars believe that it was authored by Paul, there are those that really can’t say it was him because the authorship is never clear. Paul told me why.

Here is what he said to me. “Do you know why I know so much about Abraham?” [So much of Hebrews is based on other things that you just can’t pull from in other scriptures.] Paul said, “When I was in the third heaven, Abraham was with me like you are with me now. Abraham himself shared (information) with me and I simply wrote it” (in the Book of Hebrews). “The authorship isn’t clear because it was Abraham and I; Abraham shared the content with me.” [Much of Hebrews is about Abraham; i.e. Hebrews Chapter 11.]

He said (paraphrased): “Remember, when I was caught up into the third heaven, I heard inexpressible words. I actually spoke with Abraham, and Abraham shared details with me about what took place, about Melchizedek and all these things that only Abraham knew. I authored the book as the Holy Spirit moved on me, supernaturally. Some of what I wrote, I learned by talking to Abraham face to face when I visited him in heaven.” That’s what Paul told me!

THE HEAVENLY REALM HAS REAL GEOGRAPHICAL PLACES

What’s more, several days later I was taken back into heaven to Paul’s house! But this time I didn’t go inside. I stayed outside where I saw a ladder in his back yard like the one described in Genesis 28, Jacob’s ladder. [I’ve come to understand that there are ladders like that in heaven in order to ascend and descend into different realms because heaven has places, geographical places. For example, the first heaven is where we live on the earth; the second heaven is the invisible realm of Ephesians 6: 12; and the third heaven where I was with Paul, it’s the Paradise of God (Rev. 2:7).]

So I jumped onto the ladder and began to climb up into another realm. I saw around me that it was all clouds so I began to pull those clouds back. As I did, a hole opened up in the heavens. Immediately then, out of heaven, flowed the color green, not just a light; it was like a green liquid and it was pouring onto my eyes! When I asked God about this, He said, “You are coming into the throne room; you are beneath the sea of glass; there is a rainbow around the throne. It’s not just above the throne; it’s a circle around the throne, a rainbow, emerald green in color.” [“And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald” (Rev. 4:3).] This is the fourth realm of heaven, the throne room, (with more realms to follow). [You can read Revelation Chapter Four for a good description of the throne room.]

I went up from the throne room into the fifth realm which is the heavenly city. I saw streets that are golden and mansions and I noticed that it was very different from the Paradise of God (third heaven) where there are hills, still waters, and flowers. It wasn’t as peaceful. Then came the sixth realm of heaven which is the place where the angels live. There is literally a realm reserved for Michael, Gabriel, all the archangels and all the angels under the archangels! This isn’t the second heaven, the angel and demon realm, where they battle. It’s a realm where the angels dwell.

Then the last heaven I saw, the seventh realm was other universes and the solar systems; undiscovered universes and planets that God has created.

So I ascended the seven atmospheres of heaven but it all began with a face to face encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ. How many of you are getting a little bit hungry, hungry for greater glory, which ultimately is Jesus Christ? More of Him!

LET FAITH COME ALIVE IN YOUR HEART

I shared these supernatural encounters because I want to bring heaven closer to home. Ezekiel saw the glory. Heaven opened and he was taken into visions of God. (See Ezekiel 1; 8; 9; 10; 11; 37; 40; 41–44; 47.) I’m not just talking about having a vision. Ezekiel was taken into visions of God. How many of you would like to have a season of visions of God? A season of visitations of the Lord? A season of encountering the heavenly glory? A season of coming under the spirit of wisdom and revelation? A season of open portals and heavenly glory?

If you’re like me, then you want open heavens of heavenly glory. Now I’m not promising you that you’re going to have an experience like mine; however, I want to bring forth a perspective so that faith comes alive in your heart! I am saying you could make yourself available today for deeper and deeper friendship with the Lord.

If that’s your heart, if you are longing to encounter God in deeper intimacy, if you are longing to behold His face and to be in the wonder of His presence, then I want to pray today that God will open the eyes of your heart as you press-in for this and all that He has for you. Let’s pray.

Lord, we’re so hungry for You in Your glory, for You in Your presence. That’s what we’re hungry for. It’s Your greater glory.

For the people reading this teaching, Lord I ask that you would open the eyes of their hearts, oh God. Take them into a deeper place of intimacy and friendship that they would behold Your beauty face to face. In Jesus’ name. Amen.

Are These Biblical Angels?

2008-05-22T14:42:00.002-04:00

Here's an interesting excerpt from an article commenting on Todd Bentley's teaching on Angelic Hosts.

If you haven't read Todd's teaching, you won't understand where he's coming from and what he's involved with.

This Quote is from the website Undeception.
...Now, do I believe in angels? Sure. Do I believe what Todd Bentley and Bob Jones say about them? Do you?

If so, you must claim an absolutely unprecedented move by the Holy Spirit and a marked change in the disposition of His work in the world, since you will be hard-pressed to find any such barking, squawking, or other bestial manifestations attributed to moves of God in Scripture. Nebuchadnezzar’s descent into madness (as a sign of God’s judgment on him) is the only thing that springs to mind.

If we should not believe these angel stories, how much credence should we put in Bentley’s Lakeland Revival, characterized as it is by a similar preoccupation with angels? If these guys aren’t to be believed when they claim the above things as spiritual realities from their positions of (ostensible) spiritual authority, how in the world would God expect us to believe the prophecies and alleged healings at the Lakeland Revival? How are the weak expected to wade through the junk to find the truth?...

File For Later Research - Too Much Information.

2008-05-22T10:51:00.010-04:00

Another fascinating article with lots of information/links for further research.

BTW, I don't agree with this author's tone in the verbiage he uses in parts of this paper/article, but the concerns/criticisms he makes are made in a manner that are easily checked out, to see if what he said is so, and if what he says/implies is supported by Scripture.

It's hard to come to a place where you call it like it is, as Josef does, when I'm/we're living in the USA being brought up in a tolerance society, and our Christianity was taught by a compromising Church.

I'll have to read this one, dissect it, and check all the links/references out for myself, later.

Now where's that copy of The Revival Hymn and Ten Shekels and A Shirt that I obviously need to listen to again?

Todd Bentley Encounters With Angels

2008-05-22T09:07:00.005-04:00

Listen to Todd talk about angels.

Wowza, does that match Scripture, or what?

The answer is: (drum roll please) Or What.

Notice that an old man brings the angel to Todd. Notice that "god" said the angel was assigned to Todd from the beginning, years before.

I guess Todd's angel took a few years off, as there wasn't any evidence during the time between the "visions" of the angel?

Were they slain in the spirit or bored to death?

2008-05-22T08:46:00.004-04:00

Sounds like a lot of churches I know. Link

Wouldn't we rather see this?

"Wesley was a preacher of righteousness that exalted the holiness of God. And when he would stand there with the two to three-hour sermons that he was accustomed to deliver in the open air and he would exalt the holiness of God and the law of God and the righteousness of God and the justice of God and the wisdom of His requirements and the justice of His wrath and His anger and then he would turn to sinners and tell them of the enormity of their crimes and their open rebellion and theie treason and their anarchy. The power of God would so descend upon the company that on one occasion it is reliably reported that when the people dispersed, there
were 1,800 people lying on the ground utterly unconscious because they’d had a revelation of the holiness of God and in the light of that, they’d seen the enormity of their sin. And God had so penetrated their minds and hearts that they had fallen to the ground." Paris Reidhead, Ten Shekels And A Shirt

Bob, Todd, and 13 "Wise" Virgins

2008-05-22T08:10:00.003-04:00

From the Sunday Life section of our local paper, The Lakeland Ledger, a New York Times Company,

"Tonight, visiting evangelist Todd Bentley says he has been told by a prophet, Bob Jones, that 13 wise virgins would carry the revival forward. So Bentley calls teenagers up to the stage and "anoints" them, touching them and watching many fall backward, a practice Pentecostals call being "slain in the Spirit." It's just the beginning of an hours-long service."

Hmmmmm. Makes you wonder.

Coincidental

2008-05-22T07:25:00.004-04:00

As I type it's ironic what's posted on the "Todd Bentley Event" chatroom, see below, by the psalmbot program/personality of the poster, ladynada:

05/22/2008[07:29] <+PsalmBot> [†] MSG [†] Matthew 24:24 Fake Messiahs and lying preachers are going to pop up everywhere. Their impressive credentials and dazzling performances will pull the wool over the eyes of even those who ought to know better.
[07:29] <+PsalmBot> [†] MSG [†] Matthew 24:25 But I've given you fair warning.
[07:29] <+PsalmBot> [†] MSG [†] Matthew 24:26 "So if they say, "Run to the country and see him arrive!' or, "Quick, get downtown, see him come!' don't give them the time of day

Wow, is that baalam's donkey speaking the truth, or what?

BTW, you can access the chatroom by having a Ustream.tv login on either the Freshfire.ca website or via the Ignited Church ustream.tv pages during the "service" times. If you have an IRC program, like MIRC or Chatzilla for Firefox, you can join in 24/7 with a ustream.tv login via their server chat1.ustream.tv and the channel #great-florida-healing-reviva (no "L").

Just be warned, when you share your opinion, question the herd mentality, question any of the manefestations or the legitimacy of healings, or dare to post something like that which is above, Scripture, you will be banned. I lost count, when using MIRC, of the number of people banned on the channel.

Go figure.

I enjoy reading what the church is into, and noticing how financial deliverance is as important as healings to the chatroom crowd.

Revival Cartoons?

2008-05-20T21:10:00.005-04:00

More, politically correct, revival/church/world/Christian cartoons over at ASBO Jesus.

Everybody's Going, Why Not You?

2008-05-20T21:04:00.005-04:00

If you live in Lakeland, go to a church that might be considered Charismatic or Pentecostal, and have concerns about the "revival/outpouring" when your pastor/flock goes regularly to the meetings, this is how you may feel. \o/

What's being served at Todd Bentley's Florida Outpouring?

2008-05-20T21:01:00.002-04:00

\o/ Something I found over at Living In The Way. \o/

Self-Proclaimed "Revivalist" Todd Bentley's website describes his "ministry" and his "passion" this way...

The passion of Todd's life and ministry: is to see others set free through the anointing of the Holy Spirit and to see others come into the reality of intimate relationship with Jesus. He also desires to see Christ's body healed, equipped and rising up in the power of the Holy Spirit to fulfill the great commission.

Really?? I would argue that that is a patently false statement! And I believe Todd's method of operation proves it!

I have watched the live footage of the "Florida Outpouring" Revival from Lakeland, Florida on GODTV for many nights now and have seen practically NO preaching or teaching of the Word of God by Mr. Bentley. In a basic count..... More Here

SCRIPTURES TO REMEMBER

2008-05-20T20:57:00.001-04:00

http://discerningtheworld.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/scriptures-to-remember-that-will-help-keep-you-safe-from-deception/

When people tell you that Jesus is actually showing up or they saw Jesus in a vision etc., remember this:

Mat 24 v 23-27 ”23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (i.e., we will NOT see Jesus again in ANY form until his second coming and at such time every eye will see him at the same time)

When people tell you that God ‘told them so’ or ‘gave them the vision/prohpecy’ hence you MUST believe it, but it does not tie up 100% with scripture, remember this:

Jeremiah 14 v14 “Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.”

Ezekiel 13 v 2-9 ”2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: ‘Hear the word of the LORD! 3 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 4 Your prophets, O Israel, are like jackals among ruins. 5 You have not gone up to the breaks in the wall to repair it for the house of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the LORD. 6 Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. They say, “The LORD declares,” when the LORD has not sent them; yet they expect their words to be fulfilled. 7 Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The LORD declares,” though I have not spoken? 8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign LORD. 9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.”

If someone tells you that Satan can’t make visions or prophecies come true, remember this:

Deuteronomy 13 v 1-5 ”4 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.”

When people tell you that they can see Angles, or have an Angel guiding them, or have Angels imparting wisdom or biblical revelation, remember this:

John 14 v 26 Jesus said: “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

When people tell you that these ’strange’ manifestations are from God, remember this:

2 Timothy 1 v 7 “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

2 Thess 2 v 9-10 “Even him who is coming after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not a love of the truth that they might be saved.”

If people tell you that Satan can’t cast out or deliver people from demons, remember this:

Matthew 12 v 27 Jesus said to the Pharisees: “And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.”

If people tell you that signs and wonders bring people to greater heights in their faith or lead people into a truly born again experience, remember this:

John 12 v 37 ”But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him.”

John 4 v 48 ”Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”

John 6 v 26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.”

Matt 24 v 24: “For false Christ’s and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”

If people tell you that you are not to judge God’s ‘anointed’, remember this:

Deuteronomy 13 v 12-14 “13 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town.” (Sword = Word of God)

Proverbs 17 v 150 “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD”

Proverbs 18 v 15 “The heart of the prudent acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge”

Titus 1 v 9 “Holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.”

1 Timothy 1 v 3 “That you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine”

John 7 v 24 Jesus said: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (using the Word of God)

Rom 16 v 17 “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them”

1 Corinthians 5 v 9 v 13 “9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES

(‘Do not judge those who are within the Church?’ - This is an angry response by Paul to those who say ‘do not judge those within the church’, he is saying, WHAT? REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.)

If someone tells you that to speak up or warn a brother that they are in error or deception is wrong and we need to instead ’show love’ for ‘God is love’, remember this:

When we show someone they are in error it’s out of deep concern and love, the same love and concern that Jesus has when his Children go astray.

Acts 20 v 25-31 ”25 Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. 26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears“

If someone tells you that a particular person is anointed (hence you HAVE to listen to them) but you yourself are a truly born again believer, remember this:

1 Jonn 2 v 27 “But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.”

I John 2 v 20 v 21 “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth”

If any Christian seeks or needs signs and wonders to show them who Jesus is, then something is very wrong with their spiritual lives, because the Holy Spirit brings ALL things to your remembrance for those who are truly born again, remember this:

Remember this:

2 John 1 v 9 “Whosoever transgresses and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son”

2 Thes 2 v 11 “For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false in order that may all may be judged who did no believe in the truth but took pleasure in wickedness”

Todd, Are You Being Deceptive, or Just Doing Some Damage Control?

2008-05-19T21:59:00.005-04:00

\o/Todd's being either deceptive or doing some typical political damage control.
You be the judge.\o/

From Living In The Way

Todd Bentley: Do we have anything to worry about?

You tell me...

Take a look at this article about Todd Bentley's angelic visitation:
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=718

\o/Keep on comparing what you read from me/others/Todd
to what you see/know in the Bible. \o/

Historical/Apostolic Revival Succession

2008-05-19T10:04:00.007-04:00

I don't know if you've been to Ignited Church's Ustream.tv website, where there are regular clips of the services.

Here's a video to check out, where Todd talks about the history of the revival, and the angel. This is from the beginning of the revival, so you can catch a glimpse of the root of this.

Todd Bentley is claiming, or trying to establish a historical/angelic/apostolic connection to "real" revival.

He claims the same angel as William Branham. You should research William Branham.

Notice the same methodology, and similar claims.

Anyhow, the grasping for legitimacy isn't the problem I have with what was said, even if what you learn about Branham, 1948, etc is disturbing.

Even when the lady from Kentucky wasn't trained to fall out "under the spirit" as of yet, and didn't drop when Todd called down the "fire," that's normal. I'm sure she's cured of the challenges to courtesy drops by now.

Anyhow, don't get me started, check the video out for yourself and read my all thumbs transcript.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/355021 At 5:00 is where the real "stuff" begins.

"I told the Lord why can't I just move in healing and forget talking about all that other stuff?"
"Because, Todd, you have to get the people to believe in the angel."
"I said, God, why do I want people to believe in the angel? "
"Isn't it about getting people to believe in Jesus?"
"He said, the people already believe in Jesus, but the church doesn't believe in the supernatural."

Funny,.that doesn't sound like the God of the Bible. He's not stupid. He knows the people in the church don't believe in Jesus.

Do you actually believe the people in the church believe in Jesus? If so, where's the fruit in my/your/their lives?

Sorry, I had to go there. :o|

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/355021

Honest Questions About the Lakeland Revival

2008-05-19T09:46:00.003-04:00

\o/ Did J. Lee Grady and Charisma Magazine jump the gun with their announcement/support of this revival?

Does this sound like a, well, we shouldn't have been so Johnny on the spot with our news blast?

Honest Questions About the Lakeland Revival
I support any holy outbreak of revival fervor. But let’s be careful to guard ourselves from pride and error.

\o/More Here, in the original article.

A Pastor's Wife Responds to:Todd Bentley-Revival in Lakeland-Email from a 'Lakeland Resident'

2008-05-19T07:41:00.006-04:00

\o/Here is one response to the Todd Bentley Revival in Lakeland-Email From-'A Lakeland Resident' article that was posted at Church Warnings. Enjoy.

I am a pastor's wife and have not seen good fruit in our church from this revival. My heart has been grieved by what has been displayed and then has been reproduced. My desire is not to rip Mr. Bentley to shreds. I would simply like to share the Word in light of this revival because the Word seems to be lacking severely and also in the people who are embracing it.
I would also like to address the dear person that referred to Jezebel resisting the prophetic because she killed the prophets of God and you concluded this is a Jezebel spirit coming against Todd. Please read the Word! She had her own prophets of Baal in 1 KINGS 18:19 (450 prophets of Baal who she liked so much they ate at her (Jezebel's) table). Jezebel LOVED the "prophetic" dear friend! Let us return to the WORD OF GOD and be conformed to it.
1 Thess. 5:19-21 "Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. TEST ALL THINGS: hold fast to what is good."
We MUST test all things. If we are not allowed to test or hold one into account there is a problem.

\o/More on Church Warnings' website. In response to: Todd Bentley Revival in Lakeland-Email From-'A Lakeland Resident'

The Problems with Personal Words From God

2008-05-19T07:15:00.003-04:00

\o/ A good article by Bob DeWaay

The Problems with Personal Words From God
How People Become False Prophets to Themselves
by Bob DeWaay

The Bible tells us that God has spoken, infallibly, finally, and authoritatively through people He chose as mediators of His revelation. This is summarized in Hebrews 1:1, 2: “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.” The Bible further tells us that Christ’s words to us were confirmed through eyewitnesses, the apostles. Hebrews 2:2, 3 says, “For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard.” The apostles were responsible for giving us the New Testament that constitutes Christ’s authoritative words to His church—the revealed truths that remain binding on all.

In this article let us consider this question: Can a believer receive special revelations that become God’s personal, revealed will for his or her life? Many believe that this special revelation is real—that God provides it today. I contend that they have not thought through some of the concept’s problematic implications. In this article: I will defend the idea that God, since the days of the apostles, has been ruling providentially rather than through further specific revelation—whether through authoritative mediators or directly to individuals.

\o/More of this article at Critical Issues Commentary

Who Says the Lakeland "Revival" Isn't About the Money?

2008-05-19T07:04:00.005-04:00

\o/ An interesting article by A Little Leaven.

Who Says the Lakeland "Revival" Isn't About the Money?

Todd Bentley's defenders have been sending us emails claiming that the Lakeland "Revival" is not about the money. We beg to differ. All you have to do is visit Todd Bentley's 'Fresh Fire' website and you'll see that they are fishing for money. In fact, the site says "Sow Seed Into Revival Now!" [Seed is a Word Faith euphemism that means MONEY]

Since, when does God need money for revival? How on earth can anyone with a conscience make the claim that if you send them money that God would turn that into revival? We thought the Bible said that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. God is loaded. Why would God make revival contingent upon you sending money to Todd Bentley?

\o/ Have you been by Freshfire.Ca and taken a look??? While you're there, check out Todd's statement of faith.

Another good article selection

2008-05-18T19:21:00.000-04:00

FALSE HEALING REVIVAL IN FLORIDA?? - 3 Articles by Andrew Strom

A Florida Deception?

2008-05-18T19:19:00.000-04:00

"FLORIDA DECEPTION??" -(Watchmen Radio Interview with Andrew Strom)

The Lakeland Outpouring is a winnowing field-a place of separation

2008-05-18T19:14:00.002-04:00

\o/This was posted on the revivalschool.com forums.

The Lakeland Outpouring is a winnowing field-a place of separation
By Bryan Hupperts

In early 1991 I was listening to a tape by Paul Cain describing how God changed his body chemistry so he would not desire women. Most took this as a call to celibacy. I was disturbed by his phrasing and began to pray over what he said and finally got a definite warning from the Holy Spirit: This man is unclean. Stay away form him.

With my Foursquare/Vineyard background, you can imagine how well this went over with pastors and saints who wondered why I refused to jump into "the river." I was put out of ministry, given the left foot of fellowship on several occasions for touching God's Anointed. My motives and character were continually attacked. Finally, Paul was outed as an alcoholic and homosexual. God's warning came true.

In 1999 I was given a vision of a flowing river. Upstream, many prophets were urinating and defecating into this river and the unsuspecting saints down the way were dipping their silver cups of salvation into this river and gagging on the disgusting human waste and impurities.

The pastor of the inde charismatic church I attended at the time ripped me to shreds, slandered me, and so on. He and his associate had a gift for planting rumors some of which shadow me even today. At the time, I didn't make the connection but this local church had the word River in their title and I think they may have taken it personally. Yes, they were a "river" church, too. Take a hard look at the state of the prostituted prophetic movement. Even their leaders will admit that most of what is called prophetic ministry simply isn't. I believe this word has come true.

Before the outbreak of the Iraq war, based on things the Holy Spirit had warned me about, I wrote Pres Bush an open letter warning him of the debacle to come. I quoted news headlines 2 and 3 years before they were written and pleaded with him not to take this foolish course of action. You can imagine how the republican saints in my church came unglued. People were screaming at me, calling me a liberal and a traitor. Still, every word came true.

I write these things because there are many false prophets in the world. Kim Clement is a great example. False word after false word, and the hits just keep coming. Yet, like dogs to their vomit (yes, that's in Proverbs) saints keep running back to him (and others like him) for "words from the Lord." Further, they regularly reviling those of us with accurate prophetic track records. I was grieved over this for years until the Holy Spirit whispered, "It's because they do not love the Truth." If they truly loved the Truth they would love those who share the Truth as well as the God of Truth.

That was eye-opening.

I was visited by God powerfully during a Rodney Howard Brown meeting in the 90s. God did a work in me that remains. I saw others in the same meetings get weirder and weirder until they are no longer orthodox Christians. It's all angels and jewels and gold dust. One wind of doctrine after the next. Spiritually seems to be measured in how bizarre you can behave.

I suspect what is happening is that God is giving people their hearts desire - whatever that desire is. If they seek for God with all of their heart, it is God they get. If it is something else they desire, they are getting that, too. It is a scary reality that God promises to give those who do not love the Truth over to delusion so that they will believe lies! See 2 Thessalonians 2:11

I believe the Lakeland Outpouring is a winnowing field, a place of separation between wheat and chaff, the sheep and the goats. 2 Timothy 4:3-4, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

If there is no sound doctrine, there is no love of the Truth. I believe the wheat is being separated to be gathered into the Father's barns while the chaff is being separated and gathered together to be burned in the unquenchable fire.

Be careful what you love for God will answer you according to all that is truly in your heart. Ezekiel 14:7 "‘When any Israelite or any alien living in Israel separates himself from me and sets up idols in his heart and puts a wicked stumbling-block before his face and then goes to a prophet to enquire of me, I the LORD will answer him myself."

Unless you love the Truth, God will give you over to the idols of your heart.

Bryan Hupperts
http://www.sheeptrax.com/

Todd Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 5

2008-05-18T19:07:00.000-04:00

An err, umm, blunt article from Theology Today

I have been very outspoken regarding the authenticity of this so called “Florida Outpouring”….I didn’t believe it was of God before and what I’ve just witnessed tonight only confirmed my suspicions. I’ve seen a whole lot of God mocking things in my life….but this by far is the most audacious display of mockery I have ever personally witnessed. If you think I was critical or harsh before then you had better not read any further…..

Todd Bentley and his cohorts really outdid themselves Saturday night in Lakeland Florida. Bentley promised us there would be a “baptism of fire” and he certainly didn’t disappoint the crowd that came to be “anointed with fire”. Here are some of the highlights…if I can call them this….

As always people were coming forward claiming to be healed of things like cancer, diabetes, back aches headaches and such. Glaringly absent….as ALWAYS….were miracles such as completely restored limbs or the dead being raised…which of course they claim happens SOMEWHERE every night….just NEVER on TV….Gee…I wonder why?

People were being brought onstage to Bentley….many either laughing uncontrollably or convulsing….Bentley asks them to “step over there”….apparently where the “angel is”….he shouts “bam”…..laughs hysterically….and they hit the floor writhing and laughing hysterically…..I picture Satan laughing hysterically as well.

You know who NEVER gets affected by any of this? The folks standing behind these silly sheeple who act as “catchers” when the sheeple are being “anointed with fire” or whatever is happening to them. I think it’s amazing how these catchers seem to be the only ones in COMPLETE CONTROL……well I don’t think it’s that amazing….

Pastor Stephen Strader….the clown who brought this whole hoax to Lakeland…..running around like a fool….with his ever present laptop in hand….pretending to be “drunk in the spirit”….falls down…..only he was VERY careful with his PC…..clutching it closely to his chest as he “falls down”…..then calmly gets up and walks over to his chair and sits down…..as if nothing ever happened! Thank you GOD TV for showing this.

Bentley and his cohorts catchphrase…“Come get some” is straight out of the WWE….Maybe when GOD TV goes bankrupt from airing this fiasco the WWE can show this like “Smackdown”….nah…we know Smackdown isn’t real….they only pretend it’s real…but at least its entertaining….there is NOTHING entertaining about Bentley’s version of Smackdown….and anyone with even an ounce of discernement can see this “revival” isn’t the real deal either.

The silly sheeple looking for a sign deserve to be shorn by Bentley…they’ve been warned that what is happening in Lakeland isn’t of God….and they have ignored the warnings and plunged headfirst…or backwards in many cases…into a Satan induced hoax…and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Theology Today will continue to expose this heresy as long as it continues….and I don’t see any end in sight.

http://phillyflash.wordpress.com

Ouch, that burned!

Simple Resources For Further Research

2008-05-18T06:43:00.000-04:00

Here are some of the many sites I've used to read up on the revival, and not "feel" one way or the other, whether it is right or not.

Remember, use these links as starting points for your research. Verify and corroborate the information, to make sure it is so.

Witnessing it yourself, video, or reading it yourself, article/"teaching" on Freshfire.CA, is the best way, not just going off of hearsay and what you read somewhere on the Internet.

And be warned, many of the articles/posts/emails/comments you will see on these sites are repeated elsewhere.

Seeing an "opinion" multiple times DOES NOT make it so.

Pray about what's going on in my town of Lakeland, read a little, compare what you read/see to the Bible, to see if it is so.

THE SHORT LIST
Wolf Tracks
Revival School.com Read up on the Forums
Church Warnings

Or, just do some research for yourself, and read some of the links beyond the first page of links. BTW, don't forget to bookmark the link to that little nugget of truth you find.
Google Todd Bentley, and read the articles beyond the first few.
Google Todd Bentley Lakeland There is some good stuff here.
Google Todd Bentley Cold Reading Yes, you read right.

And, if you want to read a lot, and spend a lot of time filtering through tons of information, check out other blogs talking about the Lakeland revival and Todd Bentley.

Wow, it's a beautiful Sunday morning in Lakeland, with the sunrise across the lake!

Good day to you!

I have earnestly sought the Lord

2008-05-17T21:38:00.000-04:00

I have earnestly sought to hear the Lord concerning this "outpouring" in Lakeland. I know absolutely that there have been marvelous creative miracles at those meetings. A few of my friends have gone to the meetings and have reported the wonderful sense of joy and unity among all the thousands of people assembled there. (One of my friends said it was a "Christian Woodstock". Interesting phraseology, don't you think?) I have heard that many "backsliders" are returning to God. Somewhere in all the many thousands that have attended the meetings I'm sure there have even been some unsaved that have cried out to Jesus to save them. (I sincerely hope they know what they need to be saved FROM, though!) Yet, I have continued to be wary of this "outpouring."

Life is short; eternity is long. The most important thing is not that we be "healthy, wealthy and powerful" on this earth; the most important thing is that we please the Lord Jesus Christ and that we be not be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life; that we show Christ to this lost, dark world; that we be willing to follow the Lamb WHEREVER He leads, even unto death; that we be counted "good and faithful servants" at the end of this thing we call 'time'.

In Jesus's day, the people wanted to make Him their king when He fed the multitudes from a few loaves and fish. We are no different today. Many would make Him "king" when they are being taken care of: so-called angels of finance get them out of debt, healing angels make them whole. Anyone can serve someone that makes them feel good all the time. But love is tested and purified during the hard times.

I believe that God has answered the cry of my heart about this "outpouring"; I believe He has told me that it IS from His hand, but it is like when He gave His people Saul as their king. Saul was a judgment from God because the people refused to make God their King. I believe this "outpouring" is also like I Kings 22:22: God put a lying spirit in the mouths of the false prophets in order to bring judgment on His disobedient people.

I believe motives are being revealed, tested, purified by those that are earnestly seeking the Lord. I believe that ears are being tickled and hearts are being hardened by those that are seeking their own ways. In these "last of the last days" I believe this "outpouring" is from God in order to bring about a "quick work".

Hello

2008-05-17T13:15:00.000-04:00

Hi, I'm that guy from Lakeland who wrote the Email From-'A Lakeland Resident'
that has been making the rounds.

So, as I do some more research on this "thing" going on in my town, I'll post some links to what I find.

The Lakeland Revival - The Great Florida Healing Revival -- -- Revival In Lakeland '08

Two Years Later, What's Changed?

A Link For More Information

One Way To Tell A False Ministry

Todd Bentley Is Back, Peddling His Ungodly Wares

The Lakeland Scandal - From Charisma Magazine

Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion

Todd Leaves His Wife

Todd Bentley's Revival Ending

Anyone Ever Hear of Marjoe Gortner?

It's All About Todd's Imagination - That's How He Does It

The Video - Todd Predicts The Second Coming of Christ

A Forum Post

Video Interview/Commentary About Lakeland - "AN INSIDER's WARNING" - Lakeland Revival

Elvis Has Left The Building

Reminders, Lest We Forget

Todd's Interview on Nightline

Award

LINK

And the False Teacher of the Year Award Goes to…

What Is The Purpose of Water Baptism?

Reflections On Lakeland Florida Events

Modern-day 'miracles' lack Biblical purpose

Modern-day 'miracles' lack Biblical purpose

A Pastor Visits and Objectively Evaluates The Revival.

St Petersburg Times Article: Todd Bentley's revival in Lakeland draws 400,000 and counting

Todd Answers the Critics

Berit Kjos

ATM Machines In the Meeting Tent

The Great Falling Away Today, By Milton Green

Starting Places For Further Research

Revival Quotes

The Christian Civil War

International Visitors

How to know the difference

Another Observer Of The Meetings In Lakeland

An Open Heaven

Exposing Error: Is It Worthwhile?

25 Questions About Prophets And Moves Of God

Todd, The Evangelist's Interview With Channel 8, NBC

Why I Believe this Todd Bentley, Fresh Fire "outpouring of the spirits" is not of God

Todd Bentley Florida Revival Links From End Times Prophetic

A Few Links From Let Us Reason Ministries

Three Questions About The Todd Bentley Florida Outpouring Revival Meetings

An Apology To The Body

That Sums This Outpouring in Lakeland Up Nicely.

Well, Is It or Isn't It?

Revival Report

The Violent Word of God

Quote From John McArthur

The THUNDERING Song

Todd Testing The Spirits?

What's Happening To People?

What's Up With Those Tattoos?

A Discussion About Todd And Jesus

Messages About the Revival From SermonAudio.com

Run For Your Life - Sermon From The Sunday After 9/11

Steve Hill and John Kilpatrick speak at FLORIDA REVIVAL

Steve Hill / John Kilpatrick praying for Todd Bentey

What prophecy is currently being fulfilled?

False Prophets Duping Christian Parents

Cleaning Out The Barn

A FACE TO FACE ENCOUNTER

by Revivalist Todd Bentley [ as edited by Kathy Thorne]PART 1 of 2

JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER

ENCOUNTERS AND PROPHETIC EXPERIENCES ARE INTENTIONAL

JESUS CHRIST IS THE GATE, THE DOOR , AND THE LADDER

A FACE TO FACE ENCOUNTER

by Revivalist Todd Bentley [ as edited by Kathy Thorne]PART 2 of 2

FRIENDSHIP WITH GOD PRECLUDES ANY FACE TO FACE ENCOUNTER

THE MESSAGE FOR THIS HOUR IS THE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS

MORE WITH PAUL

THE HEAVENLY REALM HAS REAL GEOGRAPHICAL PLACES

LET FAITH COME ALIVE IN YOUR HEART

Are These Biblical Angels?

File For Later Research - Too Much Information.

Todd Bentley Encounters With Angels

Were they slain in the spirit or bored to death?

Bob, Todd, and 13 "Wise" Virgins

Coincidental

by Revivalist Todd Bentley [ as edited by Kathy Thorne]
PART 1 of 2

by Revivalist Todd Bentley [ as edited by Kathy Thorne]
PART 2 of 2