Why I Believe this Todd Bentley, Fresh Fire "outpouring of the spirits" is not of God

When I first heard about the revival, via an email from a friend, about 4 days or so into the revival, I decided to check it out.

This was the video that made me definitely check out Todd Bentley.

I am a student of revival, and there were obvious things to me that seemed waaaay off in this video.

First, Todd tries to create an apostolic/revivalist/angelic succession. The angel, William Branham, etc. At this point, I had no clue who William Branham was, but I've heard revivals/outpourings speak about the revivalists of old before. You should look into William Branham for yourself, to see what Todd is claiming is on him now.

Then he tries the fire on a Kentucky lady. Unfortunately, not being a veteran of being in the "spirit" she didn't do the courtesy drop or manifestation. I'm sure that changed over time.

At 5 min or so, the fun begins. You know, if you don't understand, well then.....

"I told the Lord why can't I just move in healing and forget talking about all that other stuff?"
"Because, Todd, you have to get the people to believe in the angel."
"I said, God, why do I want people to believe in the angel? "
"Isn't it about getting people to believe in Jesus?"
"He said, the people already believe in Jesus, but the church doesn't believe in the supernatural."
This sounds like another Jesus to me, even when I watched it over and over again, trying to justify what I heard.

That drove me to check out his website, freshfire.ca. It's changed in the last few weeks, as you'll see from the "cleaning out the barn" link above.

There I found out the "revelation" that Todd has encounters with dead people.(I'm sorry, for you "prophetic" and "anointing" seekers, yes, it was supposedly a vision, not speaking to dead people. But in my experience, the conscious conversational interactions in a vision usually are with God, not something you see.)

There I found out that Paul AND Abraham wrote the Book of Hebrews.

There I learned that Todd has no problem with encounters, for he NEVER, EVER, EVER, relates in his teachings, videos, books, or audio that he has EVER TESTED THE SPIRITS.

And one has to ask, if Todd is not listening to and doing what the Bible says, "testing the spirits," what "spirit," according to all we know about the Bible, WHAT did Todd embrace, and continues to embrace?

As I watched videos of Todd at Toronto (pre-tattoos) you hear stuff like this:



Notice, as you look for yourself, check out Freshfire.ca, and his statement of faith there.

You gotta keep that "further revelation" open, yet although claiming they're substantiated by Scripture, as you read, learn, watch, and listen to the encounters, you'll see these "further revelations," equivalent to Scripture in their eyes, are far extra Biblical. (again, see cleaning out the barn)

I ran across some other websites, as listed to the right. On one, I came across this:(start at 3 min IMO, to get the context)
Anyway, around 3.55 in this video - you can fast forward to it - a girl comes forward. After some ministry from Bentley, Todd says: Could we pick her up, I’m not done messin’ with her yet? which is a very odd thing to say, even in jest, and then there is something even odder he says about a minute later - it is like really mocking tongues or mocking ministry - Blablahblahblahblah be drunk! Blah blah blah blah blah blah - he says - what on earth is that about?



You see, I regularly get questioned as to my salvation, whether I believe in the supernatural, what religion am I, when I'm in the chatroom for the revival, and I dare post something that questions the "god" of Todd.

I've been there, done that, bought the tshirt and have the video to prove it as far as the supernatural, and experiencing true Biblical repentance.

I do and can embrace the genuine. There is a difference, and you find that by knowing the real McCoy, as you study your Bible.

I've seen the genuine. I've prayed for, seen people healed, and been healed myself.

In fact, from the beginning of this "The Great Adventure" since I repented of my sins, and put my faith in Jesus Christ, I've seen God's Hand move mightily and have been a "God Chaser" myself, spending many weeks in revivals where God supposedly was blessing with an outpouring, staying "under the spout, where the glory comes out" as one "move" called it.

I've been to Charismatic, Pentecostal, and Fundamentalist churches, and can easily feel at home in any of the above, for they all are right, anointed, and following after God, if in balance with what Scripture Says/Teaches.

I've seen the devil in action on the missions field, and I've seen the overwhelming deception here at home, and see some of the things, compromise, that has got us here, to this.

Todd started as a cheap charlatan, but because he's "christian" we let all kinds of things slide.

I keep hearing people say things like look at what God is doing, keep your eyes on man, not God, and take in the meat, spit out the bones.

There is a basic problem with this. If you read a box's/bottle's ingredients label and it contains things poisonous/harmful to you, do you take in the good stuff, and hopefully aren't affected by the bad, before you spit it out?

As a friend of mine says, how many drops of poison does it take in your glass of water for you to realize you shouldn't drink it?

As you can see in this video, below, his "prophetic/word of knowledge" gift isn't.

There is lots of legitimate, researchable items of concern to anyone who is wondering about this "outpouring of the spirits" in Lakeland.

All it takes for you or I to find the Truth about Todd, Freshfire, the Kansas City Prophets(I'm not going to go into that one), Emma -O, 6 or 7 heavenly realms, Bob Jones, Paul Cain, Patricia King(I'm not going into those three in this post either), etc, is to do the research which is as easy as using a search engine on the internet.

See what the man teaches, does, says, and writes, and compare that to Scripture.

Some of this stuff is ridiculous. Some of it will make you cry for your brothers and sisters involved with this deception.

As you can see here, violence is how Todd's god heals some.


BTW, in the accounts of thousands of claimed healings in the past two months, why isn't there even one medically verified healing/miracle?

We(people who dare question anything about the revival and stand on the evidence) are demonized and told to not "touch 'god's' anointed" or that we're being "critical" or possibly that we are blaspheming the Holy Spirit, when we share the facts.

But personally, if I know my brothers and sisters are having a nice walk down a path, leading over a cliff, I will warn them.

A Few Links From Let Us Reason Ministries

Todd Bentley “Meet the new thing- same as the old thing” “Will We get fooled again?”pt.1- Todd Bentley's pursuit of the supernatural

pt.2 To be Forewarned is to be Forearmed- How important is it to know the word to test supernatural experiences?

pt.3 A story of Earth and Heaven- Examining Bentleys experience of a pillar of light and his trip to heaven.

pt.4 When the Angel came- The Branham connection- Bentleys claim of the visiting angels revelation and power.

pt.5 The fire- Fresh Fire

Three Questions About The Todd Bentley Florida Outpouring Revival Meetings

\o/An excerpt from the website, Storm Harvest. You can find the entire article/discussion HERE .\o/

...Questions

1. Why are we calling this a revival?
The largest churches in the UK (such as Kensington International) draw more people every week than are turning up to Lakeland. The largest church in Nigeria (Faith Temple) draws three times that number! These churches win as many people to Christ each week as are being won at Lakeland. We do not call them revival because such a term implies that communities are being affected, towns are being changed, nations are being shaken. For a start, there are no credible evaluations of how many have been saved in Lakeland, Florida. Not from any of the main sources. We are now six or seven weeks in! There are estimates of how many people show up, and how many are falling down - but not of salvations?

2. Why have all the recent "revivals" which cause tourism take place in America?
Toronto, Smithton, Pensacola, Lakeland... thousands travelling to see it. Next week in a Northern Indian city there will be a baptism of 10,000 new converts, gathered in from hundreds of COC churches. In two weeks time there will be the confirmation of 8,000 new converts in a Pentecostal assembly in Uganda. It is estimated that 1,000 Iraqis are being converted a week now from Islam. Why don't we fly to those places - whose statistics are far more impressive than Lakeland?(For more information on revival tourism to those places watch this space!)

3. What has our Christianity become about?
Since when is the gospel centrally about a focus on angels, third heaven revelations, impartations and transferable blessings? Since when did Jesus die to make us rich, or to cancel debt we have accrued through the self focused spending we engage in here in the West? What happened to the simplicity of the gospel - repent, believe and be baptized?

We do not think the meetings in Lakeland will do much to make churches around the world look and act more like Jesus. The need for holy love, perfect oneness, release of the saints to ministry and completion of the great commission is not enflamed by enamel teeth or even miraculous healings. These tasks will remain long after Lakeland has become a set of archives in the YouTube history. Before you spend thousands of dollars going there, take a trip to the empty buildings at Pensacola, edifaces with a high debt and few people. Or perhaps go to Toronto and see a city that has successfully resisted God's presence in her midst these last twelve years.

Messages About the Revival From SermonAudio.com

Links To Messages From Pastors About The Florida Outpouring

Are These Biblical Angels?

Here's an interesting excerpt from an article commenting on Todd Bentley's teaching on Angelic Hosts.

If you haven't read Todd's teaching, you won't understand where he's coming from and what he's involved with.

This Quote is from the website Undeception.
...Now, do I believe in angels? Sure. Do I believe what Todd Bentley and Bob Jones say about them? Do you?

If so, you must claim an absolutely unprecedented move by the Holy Spirit and a marked change in the disposition of His work in the world, since you will be hard-pressed to find any such barking, squawking, or other bestial manifestations attributed to moves of God in Scripture. Nebuchadnezzar’s descent into madness (as a sign of God’s judgment on him) is the only thing that springs to mind.

If we should not believe these angel stories, how much credence should we put in Bentley’s Lakeland Revival, characterized as it is by a similar preoccupation with angels? If these guys aren’t to be believed when they claim the above things as spiritual realities from their positions of (ostensible) spiritual authority, how in the world would God expect us to believe the prophecies and alleged healings at the Lakeland Revival? How are the weak expected to wade through the junk to find the truth?...

Bob, Todd, and 13 "Wise" Virgins

From the Sunday Life section of our local paper, The Lakeland Ledger, a New York Times Company,

"Tonight, visiting evangelist Todd Bentley says he has been told by a prophet, Bob Jones, that 13 wise virgins would carry the revival forward. So Bentley calls teenagers up to the stage and "anoints" them, touching them and watching many fall backward, a practice Pentecostals call being "slain in the Spirit." It's just the beginning of an hours-long service."

Hmmmmm. Makes you wonder.

Everybody's Going, Why Not You?

If you live in Lakeland, go to a church that might be considered Charismatic or Pentecostal, and have concerns about the "revival/outpouring" when your pastor/flock goes regularly to the meetings, this is how you may feel. \o/

SCRIPTURES TO REMEMBER

http://discerningtheworld.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/scriptures-to-remember-that-will-help-keep-you-safe-from-deception/

• When people tell you that Jesus is actually showing up or they saw Jesus in a vision etc., remember this:

Mat 24 v 23-27 ”23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (i.e., we will NOT see Jesus again in ANY form until his second coming and at such time every eye will see him at the same time)

• When people tell you that God ‘told them so’ or ‘gave them the vision/prohpecy’ hence you MUST believe it, but it does not tie up 100% with scripture, remember this:

Jeremiah 14 v14 “Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.”

Ezekiel 13 v 2-9 ”2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: ‘Hear the word of the LORD! 3 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 4 Your prophets, O Israel, are like jackals among ruins. 5 You have not gone up to the breaks in the wall to repair it for the house of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the LORD. 6 Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. They say, “The LORD declares,” when the LORD has not sent them; yet they expect their words to be fulfilled. 7 Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The LORD declares,” though I have not spoken? 8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign LORD. 9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.”

• If someone tells you that Satan can’t make visions or prophecies come true, remember this:

Deuteronomy 13 v 1-5 ”4 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.”

• When people tell you that they can see Angles, or have an Angel guiding them, or have Angels imparting wisdom or biblical revelation, remember this:

John 14 v 26 Jesus said: “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

• When people tell you that these ’strange’ manifestations are from God, remember this:

2 Timothy 1 v 7 “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

2 Thess 2 v 9-10 “Even him who is coming after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not a love of the truth that they might be saved.”

• If people tell you that Satan can’t cast out or deliver people from demons, remember this:

Matthew 12 v 27 Jesus said to the Pharisees: “And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.”

• If people tell you that signs and wonders bring people to greater heights in their faith or lead people into a truly born again experience, remember this:

John 12 v 37 ”But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him.”

John 4 v 48 ”Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”

John 6 v 26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.”

Matt 24 v 24: “For false Christ’s and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”

• If people tell you that you are not to judge God’s ‘anointed’, remember this:

Deuteronomy 13 v 12-14 “13 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town.” (Sword = Word of God)

Proverbs 17 v 150 “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD”

Proverbs 18 v 15 “The heart of the prudent acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge”

Titus 1 v 9 “Holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.”

1 Timothy 1 v 3 “That you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine”

John 7 v 24 Jesus said: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (using the Word of God)

Rom 16 v 17 “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them”

1 Corinthians 5 v 9 v 13 “9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES

(‘Do not judge those who are within the Church?’ - This is an angry response by Paul to those who say ‘do not judge those within the church’, he is saying, WHAT? REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.)

• If someone tells you that to speak up or warn a brother that they are in error or deception is wrong and we need to instead ’show love’ for ‘God is love’, remember this:

When we show someone they are in error it’s out of deep concern and love, the same love and concern that Jesus has when his Children go astray.

Acts 20 v 25-31 ”25 Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. 26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears“

• If someone tells you that a particular person is anointed (hence you HAVE to listen to them) but you yourself are a truly born again believer, remember this:

1 Jonn 2 v 27 “But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.”

I John 2 v 20 v 21 “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth”

• If any Christian seeks or needs signs and wonders to show them who Jesus is, then something is very wrong with their spiritual lives, because the Holy Spirit brings ALL things to your remembrance for those who are truly born again, remember this:

John 14 v 26 Jesus said: “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

Remember this:

2 John 1 v 9 “Whosoever transgresses and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son”

2 Thes 2 v 11 “For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false in order that may all may be judged who did no believe in the truth but took pleasure in wickedness”

Todd, Are You Being Deceptive, or Just Doing Some Damage Control?

\o/Todd's being either deceptive or doing some typical political damage control.
You be the judge.\o/

From Living In The Way

Todd Bentley: Do we have anything to worry about?

You tell me...

Take a look at this article about Todd Bentley's angelic visitation:
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=718

\o/Keep on comparing what you read from me/others/Todd
to what you see/know in the Bible. \o/

Another good article selection

FALSE HEALING REVIVAL IN FLORIDA?? - 3 Articles by Andrew Strom

A Florida Deception?

"FLORIDA DECEPTION??" -(Watchmen Radio Interview with Andrew Strom)

Simple Resources For Further Research

Here are some of the many sites I've used to read up on the revival, and not "feel" one way or the other, whether it is right or not.

Remember, use these links as starting points for your research. Verify and corroborate the information, to make sure it is so.

Witnessing it yourself, video, or reading it yourself, article/"teaching" on Freshfire.CA, is the best way, not just going off of hearsay and what you read somewhere on the Internet.

And be warned, many of the articles/posts/emails/comments you will see on these sites are repeated elsewhere.

Seeing an "opinion" multiple times DOES NOT make it so.

Pray about what's going on in my town of Lakeland, read a little, compare what you read/see to the Bible, to see if it is so.

THE SHORT LIST
Wolf Tracks
Revival School.com Read up on the Forums
Church Warnings

Or, just do some research for yourself, and read some of the links beyond the first page of links. BTW, don't forget to bookmark the link to that little nugget of truth you find.
Google Todd Bentley, and read the articles beyond the first few.
Google Todd Bentley Lakeland There is some good stuff here.
Google Todd Bentley Cold Reading Yes, you read right.


And, if you want to read a lot, and spend a lot of time filtering through tons of information, check out other blogs talking about the Lakeland revival and Todd Bentley.

Wow, it's a beautiful Sunday morning in Lakeland, with the sunrise across the lake!

Good day to you!

I have earnestly sought the Lord

I have earnestly sought to hear the Lord concerning this "outpouring" in Lakeland. I know absolutely that there have been marvelous creative miracles at those meetings. A few of my friends have gone to the meetings and have reported the wonderful sense of joy and unity among all the thousands of people assembled there. (One of my friends said it was a "Christian Woodstock". Interesting phraseology, don't you think?) I have heard that many "backsliders" are returning to God. Somewhere in all the many thousands that have attended the meetings I'm sure there have even been some unsaved that have cried out to Jesus to save them. (I sincerely hope they know what they need to be saved FROM, though!) Yet, I have continued to be wary of this "outpouring."

Life is short; eternity is long. The most important thing is not that we be "healthy, wealthy and powerful" on this earth; the most important thing is that we please the Lord Jesus Christ and that we be not be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life; that we show Christ to this lost, dark world; that we be willing to follow the Lamb WHEREVER He leads, even unto death; that we be counted "good and faithful servants" at the end of this thing we call 'time'.

In Jesus's day, the people wanted to make Him their king when He fed the multitudes from a few loaves and fish. We are no different today. Many would make Him "king" when they are being taken care of: so-called angels of finance get them out of debt, healing angels make them whole. Anyone can serve someone that makes them feel good all the time. But love is tested and purified during the hard times.

I believe that God has answered the cry of my heart about this "outpouring"; I believe He has told me that it IS from His hand, but it is like when He gave His people Saul as their king. Saul was a judgment from God because the people refused to make God their King. I believe this "outpouring" is also like I Kings 22:22: God put a lying spirit in the mouths of the false prophets in order to bring judgment on His disobedient people.

I believe motives are being revealed, tested, purified by those that are earnestly seeking the Lord. I believe that ears are being tickled and hearts are being hardened by those that are seeking their own ways. In these "last of the last days" I believe this "outpouring" is from God in order to bring about a "quick work".

Hello

Hi, I'm that guy from Lakeland who wrote the Email From-'A Lakeland Resident'
that has been making the rounds.

So, as I do some more research on this "thing" going on in my town, I'll post some links to what I find.